bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Blue, I wish you guys would get off the phony pony ride of "banning ALL guns".
That is not and has never been the issue.
Then what the f*#k is your solution? Do you realize that a semi-auto handgun is more lethal in close quarters than an "assault rifle"?
Most 9mm handguns have around a 15-round capacity. Now imagine someone with 3 magazines. That's 45 rounds. And 1 9mm round will kill you if placed properly. 45 dead people.
It ain't the guns, it's the mind that needs to be fixed. If you want my solution to stop these shootings, I would force everyone taking psychotropic meds to be put into a State registry and denied the right to have guns, until they are deemed o.k. and no longer need the drugs.
|
|
jghedge
climber
|
|
"I would force everyone taking psychotropic meds to be put into a State registry and denied the right to have guns, until they are deemed o.k. "
And that will keep them from having access to guns?
That's a "solution"?
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
That's a "solution"?
Yep. Almost all mass-shootings involved people taking these drugs. It's a bigger problem, not just guns, but our desire to keep our kids medicated on these drugs because we have generally failed as parents.
It's a societal problem really. Couple drugs with a lack of morality and responsibility, and BINGO, kids shooting people for stupid reasons.
It's culture-rot.
|
|
jghedge
climber
|
|
"Yep. Almost all mass-shootings involved people taking these drugs."
Lanza got the guns from his mother.
How would him being on a registry have prevented him from getting his hands on them?
|
|
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
|
|
i posted that upthread Bluey..;-) That guy nailed it thoroughly.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
"I would force everyone taking psychotropic meds to be put into a State registry and denied the right to have guns, until they are deemed o.k. "
Blue.. You have used the arguments that making something illegal just means the only people who have it are criminals. So how would a law stop these people from getting access to guns? If your premise is true.
Plus.. what do you do for people who have a short term mental health episode and need the meds to get through it? How do you determine that they are now safe. IE.. a returning Vet with post traumatic stress disorder needing meds. Is he or she now banned for life from owning a gun? Your law would require a doctor to determine when someone was safe? Do you know if any doctors would do that? I wonder how many guys in the military are taking some of these meds..
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
John, the first step is to remove people with these prescriptions from gun eligibility. Just like felons.
They will get them, as in Newtown, but it's a start.
What nobody is talking about is that Newtown was unavoidable without a complete ban on all guns everywhere. This sh#t WILL happen. The question that NOBODY IS F*#KING ANSWERING IS, WHY DID HE DO IT?
Who stands in front of a 5-year old and shoots the kid dead? For no reason. This was the work of utter evil. I have no other way to explain it. And I have a 5-year old son.
Pure evil, or utter insanity. Do not try to comprehend it, you can't if you are sane.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
What is wrong with universal background checks?
|
|
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
|
|
Philo,, even the MAJORITY of the NRA membership is all for thorough back ground checks.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Well good, should be a no brainer then.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
The state of California dosen't have the will, the money or the balls to go get the guns of about 20,000 fellons and mental tards who have court orders to surrender their guns.
What makes you think that some new laws are going to change anything?
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
John, the first step is to remove people with these prescriptions from gun eligibility. Just like felons.
so you are cool with taking guns away from military personal or police officers if they take these meds? I think that would lead to all kinds of problems, such as people not going to doctors when a little help would fix them right up. There is a difference between people with long term mental health problems and people with situational mental health problems that some short term care would fix, yet you have no differentiation in your law. I wouldn't be surprised if there are police officers taking some of the meds you are worried about.
Your law would open up a can of worms. It would be interesting to see how you deal with it. What would happen if you went through a very traumatic experience and needed these meds to help you get through it? Would you give up your right to own a gun permanently? Who would determine that you are now safe? I bet you would fight like a crazy man to keep your guns or at least get them back.
What you might not have thought of is once labeled a crazy person, its very hard to get rid of that label. So what would end up happening is that people just wouldn't go get help when it could really help them. there are plenty of case that people get short term help and are fine after, but there are also cases where people don't get help and there problem just gets worse and worse until it becomes very difficult to ever fix it.
Just some things to think about. I'm mostly agree that there are some psychiatric cases that shouldn't own guns. But just like deciding which guns to ban, there are all sorts of variations and difficult decisions, many which would be a lot tougher then just saying this or that gun is bad.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
so you are cool with taking guns away from military personal if they take these meds?
Yep.
|
|
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
|
|
My brother was a counselor for the VA after his thirty of active duty. He fought the prescriptions of these drugs tooth and nail as he witnessed too many times them actually affecting the Vet negatively. He said WAY too many were instantly diagnosed with PTSD problems which did nothing but further the doubt of the Vets - of themselves.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
What about keeping them away from people with or who have had drinking problems?
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
I agree Ron, many of them are over perscribed. But I have seen them help people and even on the short term.
I think about the police officer who is shot in the line of duty and also loses his partner. He is dealing with heavy PTSD and could use the help of these drugs, but now with this new law Blue proposes he wont go to the doctor to get help because he knows he will likely never be allowed to work as a police officer again. So he doesn't get help and the problem gets worse instead of better. But he keeps his job because he is able to hide the problem and he doesn't take the meds.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
What about keeping them away from people with or who have had drinking problems?
Nope. Too hard to diagnose. WTF is a "drinking problem"? Too open for misinterpretation.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Hi guys
I have been following along reading your posts.
There seems to be general agreement here that any new laws won't help to mitigate mass murder, but maybe universal background checks is a good idea anyway, can't hurt.
Agreement: no law will be passed to "ban" any kind of weapon not currently banned now
Unlike England, Australia, or Canada-there will not be a general outlawing of guns
conclusion: expect more mass murders, and accept the fact that there is not really anything to be done about it, it is the "price" we pay for a couple guys over 200 years ago writing one sentence into our Constitution, back when they had black power muskets and about one minute to reload.
|
|
jghedge
climber
|
|
"What about keeping them away from people with or who have had drinking problems?"
Drinking is as least as to blame for as much gun violence as drugs are.
So we would need a national drunk registry as well.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!