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Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:00am PT
Hillrat has said it better than I.

Yes, we must ban everything. To be safer. More regulation, more control!

People were safer 50 years ago, we had less laws 50 years ago. How can this be?

There is no utopia. You people don't get it... THERE IS NO UTOPIA!!!
What is the meaning of life? Choice!!! Without choice, there is nothing.

Edit; Jan, you're a delusional idiot. Sorry to be harsh, but in this instance it is what it is.


Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:01am PT
Yet there is not more than one gun murder every ten years in Switzerland, with these weapons.
Jan, not according to Wikipedia...

Gun crime

Further information: Gun violence and Crime in Switzerland
Police statistics for the year 2006[14] records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons). As of 2007, Switzerland had a population of about 7,600,000. This would put the rate of killings or attempted killings with firearms at about one for every quarter million residents yearly. This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the early 1990s. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordnance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.[15]

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:04am PT
Yeah, after a year of six-on, six-off as an integral cog in one of these the appeal of small arms pretty much went to zero.

The idea that gun control somehow isn't the topic of the Dark Knight thread tells you how f*#ked up gun advocates are.

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:06am PT
I can't wait till Deer and Elk season starts here in Nevada,
My freezer is getting empty!
John M

Jul 21, 2012 - 02:13am PT
Jan, you're a delusional idiot. Sorry to be harsh, but in this instance it is what it is.

could you expand on what you think she said that is delusional or idiotic rather then just calling her names? I thought what she said was reasonable.

attack the argument.. not the person.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 21, 2012 - 07:02am PT
Americans are intrepid.

They all came here from a long way, rather than hole up in high mountain valleys.
The Swiss are to be complemented for their democracy and learning to get along, but it is much easier to do in an entrenched homogeneous society than on the frontier.

Yes. There are cultural differences.

Jul 21, 2012 - 09:49am PT
Jan said:
"It takes both the restriction of weapons and the will of the citizens to live in a cooperative and peaceful society for gun bans to work"

Yup, the swiss gun laws make people have weapons, peaceful society with low gun violence. But lots of weapons in everyones hands.

Mexico has strong gun laws and lot and lots of gun violence. The 2nd part of your statement which I bolded is right.

We have lots of laws here that people just disregard and we don't need more laws. Check the drug laws. Why pass more laws that only serve to make honest people criminals and do nothing? Look at Mexican drug/gun violence as an example. The mexicans have gotten the guns out of the hands of honest folks, the criminals (and police) ignore the laws and run rampant. We'd be better served banning violence on TV. Anyone going to take on the first amendment? You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, and their are restrictions on speech. The government restricts a man and a woman getting naked on tv to make passionate love, but let violence of all sorts be shown all day long.

1st amendment amendment?

Trad climber
Jul 21, 2012 - 10:04am PT
Gun laws are not the issue here. We currently live in a system where people are permitted to live their lives out in nice instirutions after committing extremely violent acts. Insanity? Duh! So f*#king what, get the insane wackos off the books by killing them fast. You don't see this sh#t in Singapore.


Jul 21, 2012 - 10:08am PT
...or Switzerland either. Spending less money on mental health care was something that started during the Reagan era. Part of the question was "don't crazy people have rights too"?. And where do those rights end and ours begin? Thus, they let out some folks who could care for themselves and were deemed non-violent. Lots of them as it turned out.

Not sure that would have made a bit of difference in this shooting. Even in societies with strong gun control and significant spending on therapeutic clinics, and have restrictions on TV violence there are issues. Recent example A:

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jul 21, 2012 - 10:28am PT
You may call me a delusional idiot if you wish, and there are certainly more gun murders in Switzerland than when I lived there, but the statistics are not favorable to the U.S.

Some examples of murders per 100,000.
U.S. 5.0
Canada 1.81
U.K. 1.17
Switz. .66
Japan .40
Iceland .31

etc. etc.

And yes, Ron is right. We have unique problems but one of the reasons Switzerland is a better country to compare ourselves to than Japan for instance, is that they are divided ethnically, linguistically, and religiously with no less than four official languages.


Mountain Project
Jul 21, 2012 - 10:37am PT
There should be full-body scanners at all movie theaters. This should include pat downs as well.

Jul 21, 2012 - 10:58am PT
Thank you Jan for your level headed contribution. The problem is very deep seated and will not soon go away. Perhaps someday we will not get today's overheated emotional responses to issues accompanied by overt lack of respect for others.

Americans have been described as lonely and ignorant but dominant. Dominant largely due to our expending our once vast energy resources in just 100 years and because our country did not have to be rebuilt following Wars I and II. We seem to be set upon a course to reverse the great good fortune we experienced in the past.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:06am PT
i thought we wre dominant due to GUNS and how we used them. All those deer hunters and rabbit shooters signing up to go to war. And yes weve NEVER had to rebuild our entire country and i believe that japanese gent/admiral said why rather smartly.

prbably the same reason Hitler went AROUND switzerland..

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:26am PT
Ron...You idiot.....The Swiss have sledz...! No one f*#kz with the sledz...! RJ
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:28am PT
Rj,,,AMEN and pass some BACON!!!!!!!!!!

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:41am PT
Being that this was in Urban/Suburban Colorado, a state with higher than average gun ownership, both legal and illegal, it seems unlikely that in a crowded theatre like this there weren't other guns in that room. Of course we the public can never know about that unless someone who was there with a gun steps forward.

It's interesting to speculate why an armed person wouldn't shoot back and all kinds of reasons they wouldn't. Discretion, fear, common sense, other reasons we probably can't grasp without being there.

Perhaps there were guns and cool heads. Who knows?

I wonder if we'll ever know.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:46am PT
What truly confuses me, is that each night on local news channels throughout the country there are shootings, drive by shootings and murders comitted by gangs while signs near the southern borders tell you of immenant dangers in those areas of OUR country. Yet these get as much air time as a local blip about a sidewalk repair project. Yet these same actions totalled more dead and or wounded that the theatre incidnet. So one must ask what sort of manipulation is going on and why?

Trad climber
Jul 21, 2012 - 11:47am PT
This is why Cragman wants his guns...

^^Silver's post is right on the money.

One only has to study the history of Socialist governments to see that our country is going down that road under Obama....and he is only getting started with his agenda.

I suspect that should Obama get re-elected, within his term there will likely be another civil war.....and not just because of these 2nd Amendment issues.

Jul 21, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
That post is in the wrong thread. An obvious rejoinder.

and George Bush was only getting started with his agenda when the whole thing fell apart. The unassailable conclusion is we need to go back and try it again. The result will be different the next time.

When someone tells you this ask them one simple question.

Where are you keeping your own money? Here?

Or somewhere else?

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
So if one of the movie goer's started shooting at the bullet-proof vested nut job , would the bullets have had any effect , for example , knocking the killer down...? I put on a down jacket and face shield and had a fellow worker shoot finish nails at me to test the impact of a pin nailer...It didn't hurt...Okay , never mind...
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