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beef supreme

climber
the west
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
I understand your reasoning for being afraid of another person shooting in a situation like that, but, what I don't understand is why you imply that another person would be a 'wacko' as well.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
Law of averages.

For every Cragman or Shack, how many wannabe 'gangstas' or rox' are there?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:55pm PT
A couple of things from my perspective ( middle aged Canadian female who does not and has not ever owned firearms )

Canada still has shootings the way Americans do. These are mostly gang-related killings or criminal-element stuff not using registered firearms. We have strong gun control and yet nefarious types still have guns.

Forcibly seizing guns from legitimate registered owners is only going to return the guns of legitimate registered owners. The "bad guys" will still have 'em. ( q/v paragraph above ) Ergo you will still have a problem.

Using this latest mass-murder incident as a reason to debate gun-control is a red-herring. We are once again distracted and traumatized by the news into believing we are at risk. Your government will only capitalize on that fear. Look at what you allowed to happen in the time following 911........

beef supreme

climber
the west
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
I dunno how many wanna be gangsters there may be, perhaps you have a point. But if you want to use the 'law of averages' then I'd apply it to someone being of use in a situation like that.

Most of the people that I've met that have anything to do with guns are responsible with their firearms, those that do/have a concealed carry aren't 'wanna be gansters' either. Doesn't mean that they're not out there, wanna be 'heros' or whatever, but I'm more concerned about the real gangsters/ people of violence/ criminals/ etc.
beef supreme

climber
the west
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
totally, 100% agree with you Tami
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
Donnini....You just crapped in the gun deabte litter box...go get a rake and cover it.......RJ
beef supreme

climber
the west
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
toadgas, maybe you're onto something about crazy genetics. didn't malcom gladwel write about that in blink or (drawing a blank on the other book i've read of his)- anyway, about the violent portions of appalacia and family feuds?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
Donnini was in special forces..? I retract the litter box remark...Was just joking.......RJ
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
Okay, I'm sure they do too. But like Shack said, you dont know how someone will react until they are in the situation. I, for one, do not care to be part of their learning curve,

And btw, I dont think the socio-ethnic cleansing of gang members that you implied is the answer either
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
Maybe the solution is for Americans to wear flak jackets in public just like the Israelis being issued Gas Masks by their government...?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
NOW the fundamental issue is .....Americans themselves! but we can't exactly outlaw being an American, eh? America has 22x more gun homicides then the other 10 wealthiest Western countries. So what's the deal? my guess is subtle genetic mutations or variations that immigrants coming to America all had in common. Increased testosterone may be one of them. Think about it...long ago in Europe or Asia, the guy who wanted to immigrate to America was likely an ornery ass-hole type guy, stronger and angrier and somewhat less intelligent than his neighbors; anti-social and possibly generally combative...he wanted to leave his humble village and go stake his claim in the American wilderness or the dank, tough alleys of NYC or Boston; he hated his fuking neighbors to begin with! soooooo, what happens? this ornery, anti-social strain of homo sapiens comes to America and has babies who are anti-social ass-holes! and they have babies who are ass-holes, on and on! next thing you know, you have an entire country of gun-happy whackos who don't trust their neighbors, are anti-social, and are generally fukin NUTS

Fine writing!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
1: I clearly have some interest as I have commented several times already on this thread. Please read the whole thread before posting. ;-)

2: This thread was forked from another where some felt the gun debate was a bit tired and insensitive.

3: I'm not sure where you pulled your definition of trolling from but I am guessing this doesn't fit it. How does going off topic and attacking the thread author about saying he might be disinterested in his own thread sound for a definition of "trolling" though?


Simply doesn't fit with your original post.
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
A couple of things I've heard on NPR over the past couple of days:

1. There are roughly two dozen shootings annually in the US where 4 or more people are killed.

2. One man interviewed reported conducting research into such shootings and found that gun control did reduce the number of shootings. It would be interesting to see if that was peer-reviewed scientific research, but it sounded like it probably was.

If gun control does reduce such shootings, I view that as a good thing. I don't think that elimination of guns is realistic, or a even a goal to strive for at all, but some sort of screening or delay in receiving a purchased firearm would be great if proven scientifically to reduce violence and murder rates.

A question for those who oppose gun control, would some gun control be acceptable if research showed that it would reduce violence?

Josh
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
That's cause its a Trick question toad, neither gun control or arming the population from
Montessori on can eliminate this threat. (Life is like that) And you know that. Gotta set your rhetorical traps better than that.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
I think trolling is more along the lines of saying you chose climbing as the ideal activity for a bunch of developmentally disabled children you're working with because of all the sports, climbing is the one that requires the least intelligence to do.

That one was a classic, and a good definition of the term.
tarek

climber
berkeley
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
You have a super bright scientist in training who decided to use guns to kill people in a theater. Seems to me the key issue is mental health--not guns. You think this guy was not smart enough to figure out another way? Look at his apartment. The scary thing to me is that this person was very capable of bioterrorism. It's a waste of time talking about guns. How does someone like Holmes get this way?

Let's say there was ideal gun control (i.e., the impossible: good guys have guns, bad/unstable guys don't). One of these nut jobs is going to use a car, or a bomb (oh, yeah, that already happened) or much worse. The only hopeful thing about this case is that we might learn something about how the alleged killer thinks.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
Pina Bausch and Wim Wenders: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh49es_pina-3d-bande-annonce_shortfilms

Les novices de Pina Bausch : rencontre avec Jo-Ann Endicott: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfllmf_les-novices-de-pina-bausch-rencontre-avec-jo-ann-endicott_shortfilms
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
Fascinating:

"The findings of this study that gun control is ineffective in reducing crime rates are consistent with the vast majority of other studies that use state data."

Moorehouse, J.C., Wanner, B. (2006). Does Gun Control Reduce Crime or does Crime Increase Gun Control? Cato Journal 26(1) pg 103-124.

A little bit of poking around shows that the Cato Institute is libertarian and possibly political. I'm not 100% sure this journal article is 100% reliable, but interesting to skim...

Anyone know if the Cato Institute's data is reliable and impartial? Or do they have a strong enough agenda that it may not be trustworthy?

Josh
QITNL

climber
Jul 21, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
I have the solution. It's simple: the Internet.

We need more gun forums. Firearm mobile apps. Something like Facebook, but called Gunbook. Give dudes a plethora of options where they could whip out their weapons, compare them with each other and spray all about.

Get people online 24x7 talking about guns. No need for ski masks, their anonymity will be protected. Far more rewarding than going out and shooting them, no doubt.

If you don't have guns or know anything about them, no problem, you're totally included, 100% welcome. A vital part of the community, in fact. We encourage you to jump in, use your imagination and start making things up.

Don't tell me it won't work. This model has already been tested and proven. Rock climbers were used as the first test group. The conversion rate far exceeded expectations.

You're looking at it.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 21, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
Beef you ask:

I have to ask the gun control crowd though: if you found yourself in that situation- would you rather there be a chance of someone else having a firearm or would you rather know, without a doubt, that no one else in the room had a gun aside from the crazy fuk shooting everyone? Think about it, because when you preach gun control, especially concealed carry, that is what you're potentially creating.


Beef, the only thing I'd find worse that being in a target-rich environment as one of the targets, is to be in a CROSS-FIRE between two people firing. Or how about 10 people firing, in poor visibility?

How would I like to have one of those guns?

When the SWAT team comes in and sees people firing guns, they have been converted into targets....as almost happened to a gun carrying person at the Giffords shooting.
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