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tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Yup. Better laws. Gun free zone laws don't work. Except for Giffords, all mass murders over 4 casualties have been in Gun free zones. Shoulda made that law BETTER.



What about murder laws. Those could have been better.




If you think better means outlawing a tool that can be used to murder with, it is a slippery slope with no end. Remove one tool, and another will come along, that isn't logical.

Better laws will then have to be more laws. Banning the whatever people use to murder with next. Or do you truly think that Guns are the only weapon that is bad for people to kill with? Because if guns were not there, they would use something else and many people would still be killed by another method.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
Why do you think the number of drunk drivers on the road went down drastically when they started DUI check points?

It is just too fuking easy for me to buy a guns, sell them to someone WITH NO RECORD of the transaction, and have them end up in the wrong hands.

Each year, thousands of firearms are reported as lost or stolen.

oops, lost another one. Guess I'll just have to fill out another 10 min of paperwork and wait 10 days.


Here's a good place to start regarding BETTER laws.

ATF maintains the Interstate Theft Program, which is a voluntary reporting program that handles the theft or loss of firearms from interstate shipments. Since there is no legal reporting requirement regarding such activity, there is a risk that these thefts will not be reported or investigated because of questions regarding jurisdiction.

You see where FEDERAL regulations might come in handy there? It really ain't that hard to comprehend. I don't know why so many of you have to continue acting like dipshits.


Here's another specific area where BETTER regulation could work:

FFLs are required by statute to report to ATF the sale of two or more handguns to the same purchaser within five consecutive business days.

Why would someone ever NEED to purchase more than 1 hand gun a YEAR, or even a MONTH? Oh, right...

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
But the guns used at sandy hook were stolen. And when she went to report it.... BAM! Were any other of these massacres that are motivating you to make more and better laws done with stolen weapons?




If you don't have a logical answer, please, feel free to comment on genitalia size.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
James Holmes purchased his weapons legally. His inspiration don't mean sh#t if he wasn't allowed to EASILY stockpile weapons and ammo through Amazon.

It should have been required to disclose Adam's mental health issues before Ms. Lanza was allowed to purchase her weapons and strict safety requirements should have been required for her to own them. Similar disclosures and enhanced safety precautions should be required for people living with, or frequently interacting with, ex-cons (if they aren't already).

Common sense.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
I can't think on one mass shooting where the shooter obtained his weapons legally? Can you name any?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
JAMES HOLMES you retard. Fact is, YOU CAN'T THINK, period.

"Authorities say all of Holmes' purchases were legal — and there is no official system to track whether people are stockpiling vast amounts of firepower."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57478749/james-holmes-built-up-aurora-arsenal-of-bullets-ballistic-gear-through-unregulated-online-market/

More: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
We was crazy. He is saying so in court. Crazy people are "prohibited persons" as far as legal firearm ownership goes. Lying on the purchase forms is ILLEGAL, and any weapon obtained in that manner was obtained ILLEGALLY.

Holmes obtained his weapons fraudulently, and that ain't legal. In fact, it's a felony - a felony that if enforced, would have saved lives.

Weschrist would have you believe some felonies are legal.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
FUKING
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
IDIOTS
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
this is interesting, but don't read it if you don't shoot at least once a month.

https://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
ATF maintains the Interstate Theft Program, which is a voluntary reporting program that handles the theft or loss of firearms from interstate shipments. Since there is no legal reporting requirement regarding such activity, there is a risk that these thefts will not be reported or investigated because of questions regarding jurisdiction.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-national-tracing-center.html
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
But the guns used at sandy hook were stolen. And when she went to report it.... BAM! Were any other of these massacres that are motivating you to make more and better laws done with stolen weapons?


stolen? yeah I guess so if you consider a son going to the house he lives in and taking them

she went to report it? No, he killed her immediately then went to the school, she never had a chance to "report it"


anyone can sit in the bleachers and state the obvious, like what good are laws when people won't follow them anyhow?

How about you putting forth some real specific suggestions of your own that you know from your deep intellect and experience will mitigate mass gun murders in the US?

thanks
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
…That is, after all, what the constitution says.

Actually it is not.

Many serious constitutional scholars, and the SCOTUS in its recent decision Heller decision, agree that the preamble (“A well regulated militia…”) and the body (“The right of the people to keep and bear arms…”) were intended as harmonious statements, not in tension as Hedge would lead us to believe.

I quote here the conclusion of an excellent article on the subject:

“In recent years it has been suggested that the second amendment protects the "collective" right of states to maintain militias, but not the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms. If anyone entertained this notion in the period in which the Constitution and Bill of Rights were debated and ratified, it remains one of the most closely guarded secrets of the eighteenth century, for no known surviving writing of the 1787-1791 period states that thesis. Instead, "the people" in the second amendment meant the same as it did in the first, fourth, ninth and tenth amendments, i.e., each and every free person. A select militia as the only privileged class entitled to keep and bear arms was considered as execrative to a free society as would be select spokesmen approved by government as the only class entitled to freedom of the press. Nor were those who adopted the Bill of Rights willing to clutter it with details such as non-political justifications for the right (e.g., self-protection and hunting) or a list of what everyone knew to be common arms, such as muskets, scatterguns, pistols and swords. In light of contemporary developments, perhaps the most striking insight made by those who originally opposed the attempt to summarize all the rights of a freeman in a bill of rights was that, no matter how it was worded, artful misconstruction would be employed to limit and destroy the very rights sought to be protected.”

Dr. Stephen P. Halbrook is Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. Dr. Halbrook received his J.D. from the Georgetown University Law Center and Ph.D. in social philosophy from Florida State University, and he has taught legal and political philosophy at George Mason University, Howard University, and Tuskegee Institute. His newest book is The Founders Second Amendment.

Here’s the article should you care to read it.

Hedge, when you refer to slavery as a way to discredit the founders you betray your lack of understanding of history. It is clear that they did the best they could to sew the seeds for slavery's demise, while still forming a union. I.E they set a date to end importing of slaves, they arranged the first census so as to assure that slave states were a minority in Congress, and then there are the words of the Declaration.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Some things are just out of our hands, Norton, and cannot be controlled.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
I was being sarcastic Norton.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
ok tooth, I did not get your sarcasm, thought were you serious

and chaz? yeah maybe there really is nothing we can do about it

but you know, let's wait until tuesday or so this week when Vice President Biden gives the results of his talking to people on both sides of the gun issue, along with the study group's suggestions

I would like to hear if you think any of what they come up with is agreeable with you?

or are you predisposed to basically reject any new legislation as being won't work, no new laws needed because they won't be followed, over reaching big government, or whatever reasons can be pulled out of the bag because as you said, maybe we just can't do anything anyway?
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
“Even as generously construed in Heller,” he said, “the Second Amendment provides no obstacle to regulations prohibiting the ownership or use of the sorts of automatic weapons used in the tragic multiple killings in Virginia, Colorado and Arizona in recent years. The failure of Congress to take any action to minimize the risk of similar tragedies in the future cannot be blamed on the court’s decision in Heller.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/us/gun-plans-dont-conflict-with-justices-08-ruling.html?_r=0
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 13, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Says the guy who's trying to tell me that the 2nd amendment doesn't say what it actually says.

So you are saying the use of the words "THE PEOPLE" in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th and 10th amendments have differing meanings?

Your reading of the second, by interpreting the preamble as some kind of limitation of rights (actually it is an affirmation of states rights) flies in the face of the main statement which has absolute clarity:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The article I linked above covers very thoroughly just how those words were arrived at and what was meant by them.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
The third program area [interstate loss or theft] has no enabling regulation. The interstate theft program addresses the many difficulties faced when firearms that are being shipped fail to arrive at their intended destination. Because the circumstances of their disappearance are so often unknown, it is not immediately clear whether they were stolen or misplaced. For this reason, this program area addresses both theft and loss under a uniform procedure, which is described in detail in the ensuing paragraphs.

How do guns disappear? More importantly why is there no FEDERALLY REQUIRED REPORTING for the disappearance of GUNS during INTERSTATE SHIPMENTS?

State and local law enforcement agencies often lack the jurisdiction or authority to investigate these interstate movements, particularly when the point of loss has not been determined.

However, an accurate determination of the full extent of all firearm thefts and losses in America is not possible. One of the leading factors is that there is no requirement that non-licensees report stolen firearms. A second is that among those non-licensees that want to report firearms thefts and losses, there is frequently an inability to accurately identify the firearms.


This is absurdly irresponsible. And this is what your NRA memberships go to support... more irresponsible bullshit to boost gun sales while disregarding public safety... all due to a deliberate misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-3317-2.pdf
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 13, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
bang bang - the big bang

The Big Bang Theory

Dolphins may also be able to immobilize or even kill their prey using bursts of high-frequency sound. This idea was proposed in passing by a number of scientists but was first systematically investigated by the American and Danish marine mammal researchers Kenneth and Bertel Modl, in the first 'full-scale review' of the idea in 1983.

This 'big bang' theory suggests that, even if dolphins cannot kill their prey outright with bursts of sound, they can impair their prey's equilibrium or sensory system, making them easier to capture.

The 'big bang' theory may explain: how dolphins can catch prey that can easily out-distance and out-maneuver them; why dolphins have lost a large number of their functional teeth and their once-powerful jaws; and the high degree of co-operation between dolphins, necessary because they are carrying around the equivalent of a 'loaded gun'.

These so-called 'loud impulse sounds' have been recorded during predation in the wild by bottlenose dolphins and killer whales, made when the animals were hunting mullet and salmon respectively.

Norris and colleagues presented further evidence in 1989, based on experiments where the exposed anchovies to pneumatically-generated 'loud impulse sounds' similar to those recorded in the wild. They discovered that these sounds killed and injured the anchovies. More scientific evidence will be needed before conclusive proof of this theory can be obtained.

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