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tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
because it is harder to turn violence into murder if you don't have an efficient weapon to do so! Stop holding it right there and keep reading goofball!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Stop pretending that hasn't already been established over and over and over.

The question was not why do we have a lower rate of violence. It was, with a lower rate of violence, why do we have so many murders? The answer is: because damn near anyone can go to a gun store and purchase a very effective killing tool with a minimal background check, no safety requirements, very little testing, no mental evaluation, and MAYBE a 10 day waiting period.

Guns are just WAY too easy to acquire and straw purchases are just WAY too easy to get away with... as illustrated by Rong and his South African friend.




No, if you want to solve the problem of people shooting others with large capacity semi-auto's, if that is the problem you want to address, you have to TAKE AWAY the existing guns. Just changing the rules will still result in an increase of crime, because the millions of existing guns out there will still continue to kill people.

That is your opinion and is not backed by anything in the real world.

Thousands of guns are taken off the streets every year, maybe 10's of thousands (Crimpie?!?!?). You have to be an idiot to think stricter regulations would not at least help the reduce the flow of illegal guns to criminals... especially considering most criminals get their guns through straw purchases, which Rong thinks are perfectly legal.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
So guns expire after one murder? Is that real world? Stop fooling yourself.




Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants should have applications and licenses and BMI scales at the door since poor eating causes health issues that kill more people in the US than in the UK where they don't have Fat Burger and In-n-Out on each corner. Is that a equitable comparison scaled up to a bigger issue?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
So guns expire after one murder? Is that real world? Stop fooling yourself.

Like arguing with a fuking brick wall... one that continually makes sh#t up that was never said or even implied.

Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants should have applications and licenses and BMI scales at the door since poor eating causes health issues that kill more people in the US than in the UK where they don't have Fat Burger and In-n-Out on each corner. Is that a equitable comparison scaled up to a bigger issue?

No, that is not even close to an equitable comparison and not even in the ballpark of logic... it is absolutely absurd and idiotic. Nobody has walked into a school, IHOP, or other public place and killed dozens of people in minutes with fast food. Nobody uses fast food specifically to kill other people. You are an idiot... keep grasping as you slide down that slippery slope into absurdity.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
Hedge,

What regulations are you suggesting be passed? An assault rifle and high capacity magazine ban or something more restrictive? If more restrictive, then what regulations specifically?
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:43pm PT


Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants..."

Nope, that's not using logic.


Using his logic isn't using logic? ????



I'm applying the style of argument to another situation. Just because obesity kills fewer people in one location at one time (unless you count hospitals, which have as many people die of diet-related things in one day) as guns, it still kills more per day in the US. That isn't what I was arguing, it was the overall stats. If you aren't worried about overall deaths due to violence in the country, just specific scenarios in schools under grade 10, you should have said so!




Hedge has no specific recommendations, because he knows that if he loves the UK so much he should just move there and isn't willing to expose himself to others telling him that. So he will just attack those who want to deal with the criminals and stay free in the land of the free because he would rather let some politicians pass some rules at home to affect everyone else instead of just moving to the UK himself. 22,000 gun laws in the US, but he believes one more will make all the difference. He will support more and more laws until they infringe on his own cherished rights (whatever those are) and then cry wolf.



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Again, NOBODY uses fast food specifically to KILL OTHERS. I'm all for abolishing fast food, but that is an entirely unrelated issue. As is drunk driving, smoking, etc

Guns are tools that make violent crimes more destructive. Easy access to guns means more violent crimes end in murder. Many of those murders involve innocent people. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with hamburgers.

You have no idea what "logic" is. You made a faulty analogy a 7th grader should be ashamed of.

22,000 gun laws in the US...

With countless engineered loopholes.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
So you think limiting access to new guns but allowing the current guns that are out there already (300mil) will fix anything? The death by gun rate will still increase because the number of guns out there will increase. (using your logic from upthread).


I can make any analogy I want. I have 60 patients a week I make an analogy between dental decay and bugs eating the Red Bull they drink and then peeing on their teeth and the patients get it. Every one thanks me for finally putting it in simple terms they can understand, unrelated, but simple terms. Then they come back year after year with NO new cavities. It works. It doesn't have to be related, just analogous so that people can understand and deal with the problem effectively. The system works, it looses me money since I don't have cavities to fill anymore, but in real life it works.





So are you going to get the same guys who
With countless engineered loopholes.
did this to write one more?

If you can't handle putting your logic into simple-to-understand situations, is it because your argument is weak? It sure isn't because looking at the logic from a different perspective isn't an effective tool for understanding a subject. Mind you, there are 3 stupid folks who just don't get it even when I use microbiological terms, and they are the ones who pay my rent.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
So you think limiting access to new guns but allowing the current guns that are out there already (300mil) will fix anything?

No you fuking idiot. I never said that. Tens of thousands of guns are taken off the street every year. Of course that should be continued, and even ramped up. That, combined with stricter gun regulations that prevent Rong and others from engaging in straw purchases, reduce or eliminate the sale of assault rifles, and ensure new gun purchases are limited to sane people who have proven they can responsibly own guns would go a long way to reduce the number of guns in the hands of criminals and ultimately gun homicides in this country.

I have 60 patients a week I make an analogy between dental decay and bugs eating the Red Bull they drink and then peeing on their teeth and the patients get it.

Well, that isn't nearly as retarded as your other analogy.... hamburgers=guns.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
Well, that isn't as retarded as your other analogy.
Streptococcus Mutans metabolize carbohydrates and their waste product is acidic, cuts into mineralized matter (enamel) causing a cavity. What happens after YOU metabolize food? Pee maybe?
you fuking idiot.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
dude, tooth

that ISN'T as retarded as your other analogy.

Yeah, waste ~ pee, leads to tooth decay... they teach that in 1st grade.

Guns ~ fast food is fuking retarded.

You are a genius.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
And then you have the Switzerland and Mexico stories which are at total odds with your beliefs ME Christ.

But you clearly only have one thought and one opinion, rarely read others posts accurately if at all and are unable to deviate off your path. Don't know why I even bother....
captain chaos

climber
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
Archie Bunker on Gun Control...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Well, the head of the NRA was on the Sunday talk shows today...


he expressed complete confidence that absolutely NO kind of gun legislation would be passed by this congress


He know that the $35 million given by the gun industry to members of congress for their reelection campaigns was money well spent

The NRA and Big Oil both know that to throw a lot of money at politicians just plain works


everyone can relax, no one is going to take your guns away, and yes you can continue to buy as many Bushmasters and 100 round clips as you like, have at it!
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Yeah, Couchmaster. Let's do it the Swiss way. You won't mind keeping your assault weapon ammo in government depots like most, right?

Their gun laws are much stricter then our own.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
No Joe, " all this" will not happen

No Joe, tens of millions of Americans will NOT turn in their guns, ever.

No Joe, this is NOT a god damn "social issue" where liberals end up winning.

This is NOT a social issue, this is not abortion, gay marriage, progressive income tax.


However, it is possible that someday a stacked US Supreme Court may differently interpret the Second Amendment to infer the founders did not mean "arms" to be rocket propelled grenades or miniature SCUDS, but don't hold your breath waiting.

Joe, WHY do you insist on framing this debate as a conservative versus liberal thing?

It is NOT

Myself and MANY other Democrat/liberals own lots of guns, believe we SHOULD be allowed them, and like the NRA membership think there is common ground for some reasonably more restrictive legislation like background checks at gun show and MAYBE private sales (huge step), clip round limitation like the Brady Law, and MAYBE some restrictions on NEW sales only of full scale military assault weapons.

Agreeing to the above does not make someone a "liberal" OR a "conservative"
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
But that doesn't fit the argument so let's just pretend it doesn't happen.


As a result, private gun sales stop, and private citizens are given a grace period to turn in their guns.


Just keep telling yourself that. The voices in your head are leaking out.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Private sellers are not required to do background checks, inside or outside of a gun show. THAT should be stopped, inside and outside gun shows. Gun ownership should be tracked through serial numbers, just like car sales are tracked through VIN's.

Of course I know you will argue it shouldn't be stopped because you are clearly a supporter of straw sales.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
Ron, I guess you do not know "private" sales at gun shows in addition to certain other kinds of sales are fully legal, do not require any back ground checks?

Presently, 17 states regulate private firearm sales at gun shows. Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows (California, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Oregon, New York, Illinois and Colorado). Four states (Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun, but not long gun, purchasers at gun shows. Six states require individuals to obtain a permit to purchase handguns that involves a background check (Massachusetts, Michigan, North Carolina, Iowa, Nebraska). Certain counties in Florida require background checks on all private sales of handguns at gun shows. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17]

AGAIN:
The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17]
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Private sales and unlicensed dealers at shows don't do background checks.

If you've been to a gun show, you know that people walk around with for sale signs on their gear.
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