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captain chaos

climber
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
Archie Bunker on Gun Control...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Well, the head of the NRA was on the Sunday talk shows today...


he expressed complete confidence that absolutely NO kind of gun legislation would be passed by this congress


He know that the $35 million given by the gun industry to members of congress for their reelection campaigns was money well spent

The NRA and Big Oil both know that to throw a lot of money at politicians just plain works


everyone can relax, no one is going to take your guns away, and yes you can continue to buy as many Bushmasters and 100 round clips as you like, have at it!
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Yeah, Couchmaster. Let's do it the Swiss way. You won't mind keeping your assault weapon ammo in government depots like most, right?

Their gun laws are much stricter then our own.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
No Joe, " all this" will not happen

No Joe, tens of millions of Americans will NOT turn in their guns, ever.

No Joe, this is NOT a god damn "social issue" where liberals end up winning.

This is NOT a social issue, this is not abortion, gay marriage, progressive income tax.


However, it is possible that someday a stacked US Supreme Court may differently interpret the Second Amendment to infer the founders did not mean "arms" to be rocket propelled grenades or miniature SCUDS, but don't hold your breath waiting.

Joe, WHY do you insist on framing this debate as a conservative versus liberal thing?

It is NOT

Myself and MANY other Democrat/liberals own lots of guns, believe we SHOULD be allowed them, and like the NRA membership think there is common ground for some reasonably more restrictive legislation like background checks at gun show and MAYBE private sales (huge step), clip round limitation like the Brady Law, and MAYBE some restrictions on NEW sales only of full scale military assault weapons.

Agreeing to the above does not make someone a "liberal" OR a "conservative"
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
But that doesn't fit the argument so let's just pretend it doesn't happen.


As a result, private gun sales stop, and private citizens are given a grace period to turn in their guns.


Just keep telling yourself that. The voices in your head are leaking out.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Private sellers are not required to do background checks, inside or outside of a gun show. THAT should be stopped, inside and outside gun shows. Gun ownership should be tracked through serial numbers, just like car sales are tracked through VIN's.

Of course I know you will argue it shouldn't be stopped because you are clearly a supporter of straw sales.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
Ron, I guess you do not know "private" sales at gun shows in addition to certain other kinds of sales are fully legal, do not require any back ground checks?

Presently, 17 states regulate private firearm sales at gun shows. Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows (California, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Oregon, New York, Illinois and Colorado). Four states (Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun, but not long gun, purchasers at gun shows. Six states require individuals to obtain a permit to purchase handguns that involves a background check (Massachusetts, Michigan, North Carolina, Iowa, Nebraska). Certain counties in Florida require background checks on all private sales of handguns at gun shows. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17]

AGAIN:
The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17]
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Private sales and unlicensed dealers at shows don't do background checks.

If you've been to a gun show, you know that people walk around with for sale signs on their gear.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
if yopu sell more than 5 guns a tear you Must have an FFL i can't imagin that anyone who could afford a table at a gun show would be under 5 guns a year. the only show that i went to the sherrifs were manning the door and it seemed pretty regulated?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Monolith,

In California, background checks are done at gun shows, and are required of private sales, too.

The one exception is a straight-line transfer ( I don't remember the exact term ) where the gun is transfered straight from parent to offspring and the other way around.

Even two brothers have to work through a licensed dealer to legally transfer a gun in CA.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
That's California Chaz. Quite few states allow unlicensed vendors and private sales at gun shows. No background check required.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
Let those states change their laws.

I doubt the folks in Oregon or Washington would enjoy being told by Californians how they should run their affairs.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
And they will toughen their laws, because they see it works in CA. You can see proposed legislation in a number of states now to close the huge loopholes.

A huge amount of sales at gun shows go without background checks nationwide.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
You are forgetting population density issues again, Rong.

Don't you remember your discussion with Crimpie on murder rate stats? Are you having another senior moment?

She showed we have a lower murder rate than Oregon.

To refresh your memory: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2020680&tn=940
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
I dunno, Monolith.

The only shitholes worse than Oakland, San Bernardino, and Stockton are all located in places where the gun laws are even tougher ( like DC and Chicago ).

Maybe more laws aren't the answer you're looking for.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
Unhinged is a minion, a very small cog in the machinery that floods millions of feet of celluloid and broadcasts endless hours of "drama" and bloodshed desensitizing, inspiring and glorifying violence.


He introduces a straw dog,

Look over here!

There are evil looking black rifles out there!

Even though you are far more likely to be pummeled to death with bare hands and fists than ever even injured by one. (DOJ stats)

But how many murders have been inspired by his industry?





mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
Not MORE laws... BETTER laws.

TGT, UK has a violent crime rate 3.5 times HIGHER than the US, and 1/3 the number of murders. Why is that? What is the single most obvious difference? (hint: it has to do with having access to certain tools... and it ain't hamburgers or hammers.)
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 13, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Every kind of gun mis-use you can imagine is already illegal. What makes you think "better" laws will be any more likely to be obeyed / enforced than the laws already on the books?
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Jan 13, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
It is hilarious watching people shout and cry about how more laws, or tougher laws will deter criminals. It also is pathetic watching people spout off about how things are, with little to no consideration about different areas and cultures, only seeing the world from their neighborhood. Sad is probably the better term.

Burly Bob
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