Solo Belay Anchors: Inverted or Not? Which is Better?

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 21 - 40 of total 46 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Mike Libecki

climber

the moment of now

Apr 24, 2006 - 05:36pm PT

What is vague about the math being 100%, there are several right ways, all the anchors on each pitch are going to be different for a solo application, especially if off the beaten path. Practice, practice, practice setting up systems of solo anchors on tons of different anchors anywhere. There is not a simple answer for every belay anchor for solo specifically, as an anchor should be 100% no matter what. It is one thing to talk about it and visualize, another to go and set up systems with friends and learn about solo anchors, force direction, etc. There are many ways to do this right and safe. After tons of practice, it will become a non-mystery. Set up solo anchors on any pitch, crag, etc., with friends, throw a haul bag to imitate the force of a falling climber, and have some fun. I learned a ton this way. Saved my life I am sure.

WBraun

climber

Apr 24, 2006 - 06:01pm PT

Here are is an example of how the clove hitch "can be" dangerous at certain times.

The 1st photo shows standard clove hitch with the bulk of the hitch on the outside and being pinched against the rock.

Next the clove hitch flipped and the bulk of the hitch is pinched against the rock.

Both these crude examples show the potential for the rope to be damaged or cut severely in the event of a fall.

The next two show alternatives with much less rope held static by the use of a knot on the biner.

Butterfly knot and directional figure of 8

Just something to watch out for as these are just potential scenarios ..........

PDHMAN

Trad climber

Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395

Apr 24, 2006 - 06:03pm PT

Clove hitch...BAD JUJU! Also, make sure the locker is locked, eh?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Apr 24, 2006 - 06:16pm PT

Probably be good to have it ACTUALLY clipped to an anchor too...

LOL

Thom

Trad climber

South Orange County, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2006 - 10:00pm PT

Mike,

I dunno 'bout those clove-hitched water bottle keepers man—seem sketchy to me.

You might want to consider the far more secure two-eared bowline-on-a-bight butterfly followthrough with a triple overhand munter fisherman's as a finishing knot. I would then suggest that you connect the cord itself to your harness using a square figure-eight granny followthrough (again finishing with the triple overhand munter fisherman's).

Cheers,
Thom

Edit: almost forgot; make sure everything is equalized and oriented for a downward pull to the side. T.

Kristoffer

Big Wall climber

Blue Jay, California

Apr 24, 2006 - 11:49pm PT

Mike, I would definitely do as Thom said but you might also want to lash down those tails... god knows some bad stuff could happen if one of them were to "snag" on something, but other than that carry on!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Apr 25, 2006 - 12:09am PT

"Lash down those tails"? Is this still a climbing thread?

ADK

Trad climber

Reno, Nevada

Apr 25, 2006 - 12:30am PT

Thanks Werner! Lesson learned

I think your fig 8 is a little screwy though ;)

poop_tube

Big Wall climber

The Point of No Return

Apr 25, 2006 - 01:24am PT

Here is what I do.

Say you have 2 bolts. Put a tripple legth sling on them with a "magic x" in between. This can work for your downward when you go back down to clean the pitch. Then when you want to lead off of the anchor just flip the anchor up. The "magic x" will readjust itself for upward pull. Then clove hitch, prusik, or whatever TIGHT onto the first bomber piece with a screamer beeing sure the carabiners aren't going to cross load. Use 2 slings for the anchor if you want to be redundant.

Try it out and the key is ingenuity.

Cheers!

Kia

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Apr 25, 2006 - 01:28am PT

ADK,

that's a directionally oriented figure 8, still quite strong, and a slick trick.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Apr 25, 2006 - 03:23pm PT

Thanks for the tip, and clarification Werner, I will avoid cloves on lead altogether in the future. You may have just saved my life someday...

Regards,
Matt

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 25, 2006 - 04:32pm PT

Ay. If the butterfly loop gets chopped, the knot will still hold.

Alan Doak

climber

boulder, co

Apr 25, 2006 - 06:05pm PT

I use the butterfly all the time (great knot), but the directional figure 8 is new to me. I have a spectra sling handy that I'm practicing the knot on... it looks topologically correct, but when I pull on it, the knot capsizes and turns into a slipknot!!

This seems like a really bad idea. Am I missing something?

Alan Doak

climber

boulder, co

Apr 26, 2006 - 04:57pm PT

bump.

Any replies on WB's directional figure of 8? This knot capsizes under load and turns into a slip knot as far as I can see. The idea of this happening, causing rope to burn against rope, seems pretty bad to me.

Kristoffer

Big Wall climber

Blue Jay, California

Apr 26, 2006 - 05:10pm PT

Alan, the exact same thing was happening when i experimented with the directional figure 8, I thought I was maybe just tying it wrong but now that i hear the something was happening with you it concerns me.

ADK

Trad climber

Reno, Nevada

Apr 26, 2006 - 05:26pm PT

Its tied wrong. The exit strand should exit where the bite does. That way the loop around the bite will cinch down the exit strand under load....just a guess.

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Apr 26, 2006 - 05:33pm PT

I not sure how to post pics otherwise I would post it here. In the meantime, this link is helpful re the f8 debate:

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm

See the inline f8.

Cheers, John

Kristoffer

Big Wall climber

Blue Jay, California

Apr 26, 2006 - 05:57pm PT

ahh i see, I was previously just looking at Werner photos and tying the knot just by sight and placing it in the same configuration as it was in his photo (bight facing away from the anchor) but now that i looked at the instructions you provided and i oriented the knot the opposite way (bight facing towards the anchor) it worked, but however i still found that if I face the knot the wrong way it and pull down on it, like you would if you were falling on that anchor it inverts it and turns it into a slip knot.. So i guess i might still be tying it wrong or maybe you just need to make sure bight side of the figure eight is facing the anchor.. i could be 100% wrong here, maybe some one who is much more savvy that I could clear this up...