Solo Belay Anchors: Inverted or Not? Which is Better?

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Thom

Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2006 - 04:23pm PT
Searched the forum but can't seem to get a definitive answer. The issue seems buried in a billion other posts about other topics making it hard to get a consensus of opinion.

Some invert the anchor; some say doing so is a PITA and don't bother; others advocate hauling 150lbs or rocks up the wall with you to act as a surrogate belay partner (somehow, I believe Pete's actually serious); some use screamers at the clip-in point, some don't; some invert the anchor and hold it in place with a prusik; others use rubber bands(?).

So...

How do you set up your belay anchor while soloing?

Any chance of a semi-educational, semi-serious discussion on the topic? Pros? Cons? Photos?

And while I'm thinking about it, inverted or not, how do you guys mitigate that potential factor 2 fall onto the belay while getting to your first piece?

Cheers,
Thom

ADK

Trad climber
Reno, Nevada
Apr 23, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
Thom,
I researched this same question a few weeks back. What I found is that there are two preferred methods based on whether or not you have a pig.

With a pig.
Tie your pig into the power point and let it hang 2-5 ft below the powerpoint. Then tie the lead rope into the pig with a locker and run the rope through one a biner attached to one of the anchor pieces. This will prevent a factor two and will give you a dynamic belay.

W/O a pig.
Attach a screamer to the pp and invert the anchor by using a klemheist or a clove hitch on a sling attached to the first piece. Tie the lead rope into the POWERPOINT and then about 3 feet up tie it into the end of the screamer. This way you will be belayed dynamically by the screamer but if the screamer were to fail completely you would still be tied into the power point.

Hope this helps. Check out Jared Ogdens big wall book for some pics.

Edit: I dont like using rubber bands to invert the anchor because in the event of a fall the band breaks and your anchor is no longer inverted. I think the clovehitch is probably the best method...just make sure that its on a long sling so that the first piece doesnt become your anchor point.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Apr 23, 2006 - 11:55pm PT
I think alot depends on what your first few pieces are.

If they are sketchy, I'd probly want it rigged for downward pull, and pray I didn't test it out factor-2.

But if the gear is decent I will rig it up and clove the first peice w/screamer.

The thing is that if you clove a piece you are basically setting yourself up for another factor two fall on you next move, and are inveitably shortening the lenght of the shockloaded rope for a few moves at least.

I cloved the "Nipple" bolt mid pitch, then promptly fell like a dumb-ass three moves later. It hurt, but luckly not a factor-2. Kinda sucked.

On the Trip I fell cloved to the first bolt off the belay on a screamer, fell mid pitch and the screamer did not deploy. Nice soft 30 foot fall that didn't even weight the belay.

I also fell once with my miss-pig haulbag as a belayer. She gave me a nice soft sport belay catch, I liked it. I put the powerpoint low so piggy can really catch some air.

I haven't soloed much, but I guess I fall alot or something.
WBraun

climber
Apr 24, 2006 - 12:04am PT
One must be very careful when using clove hitches in these types of aplications. If the clove hitch and biner hit the rock just right it can cut the rope.

It has happened ...... and the man went to the base.
pyro

Trad climber
stoney point,ca
Apr 24, 2006 - 12:34am PT
thom hello!

Be serious, complacent annchors equal dead climber. take as long as you have until all layers are uncovered.

solo is roping the route, how fun! ego builder too!

if I had to haul four hundred pounds I would'nt be worried, because sheaves can weight. all stations have'em, "Bomb-proof" placements. use two (8mm) cords per station one for you and the other for "mrs piggy"(god I love her!). Don't "hook" a counter weight-(bad mister Danger). remember, your cord is working upsides-down soo use a butterfly( equaly weights it off). clip the first piece too "shock prevent loader". rope bucket's will make you thirsty if the line ain't clean. use the big mouth combined locker, "mr wallace" to join any P-point. Say "TIT'S", because it's tightly done right!
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Apr 24, 2006 - 12:36am PT
thx Werner! I'll remmember that. cheers to the fallen.
Thom

Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2006 - 01:13am PT
Yikes! Haven't used the clove-hitch method; definitely won't use it now.

How 'bout a prusik on a long sling tensioned from the 1st piece? Anyone?

Thx Werner!

Mike Libecki

climber
the moment of now
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:35am PT
Whats the question here. Math. Make it bomber. Force direction, just cover it, make it bomber. Easy math.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:37am PT
ok, so if cloves cut when smashed into the rock....what do you use for such application instead?

I'm confused now.

this clove hitch cutting when biners hit the rock is all news to me...
ADK

Trad climber
Reno, Nevada
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:42am PT
Yeah...Werner could you describe how that has happened?

The other method is to use a klemheist or autoblock on a sling to create tension from the first piece and orient the anchor.
Mike Libecki

climber
the moment of now
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:44am PT
Solo is solo. Use lockers, duct tape, get creative. Find what is safe and make it happen. Solo can be super safe. Think outside the box and find new techniques and make em bomber. Go set up solo anchors on tons of different routes, set up haul bags and weight and see what happens. You will be glad you did and will know for sure what is going on.
ricardo

Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
Apr 24, 2006 - 11:38am PT
all my solo's have had bolted belays ..

therefore ..

1 - sometimes i just put the pig on the PP -- put a screamer on the first piece (which is usually a bolt on the belay) ... and the go.

2 - sometimes i dont put the pig on the PP -- just a screamer on the first piece and go ..

.. except for the 1st pitch, i never rig my anchors for upward pull, since they are bolts .. and almost always bomber bolts. -- i figured they are ommidirectional.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Apr 24, 2006 - 11:51am PT
nice vague beta Mike L.
ChrisW

Trad climber
boulder, co
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:25pm PT
Nice, thanx's for the Beta Werner and the heads up. I think Mike L's advices is good. It's the only way. Get off the internet and go get real live experience. Also, John Long's two anchor books are good to look at on rest days. These anchors apply to Top ropes, Lead climbing, Big Walls and Solo rope climbing. Seems like alot of people these days don't even start with setting up Top rope Anchors. Straight to the Big Walls. Good thing for bolts, Hey.
PDHMAN

Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
Apr 24, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
THOM:
And while I'm thinking about it, inverted or not, how do you guys mitigate that potential factor 2 fall onto the belay while getting to your first piece?

Whether soloing or not, I ensure when establishing a natural anchor, that I have a placement above so I can place a bomber piece or two within 2-3' of the anchor (power point) as an immediate "Directional" which then negates the factor 2 fall. I will also do my best to establish an equalized "V" anchor to promote both vertical and downward equalized protection in case of a factor 2 fall. All my soloing has been on Aid routes. I have always used a SOLO-AID and the system of tying off every 3rd or 4th piece of bomber pro. Been doing this for the past 15 years, climbed some very sketchy, challenging stuff, taken many falls and am still around to spray about them. So I guess this system works for me and will continue to use it.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Apr 24, 2006 - 03:11pm PT
If the first move of the belay is really sketchy I would lower the powerpoint, try to fix it down with a drectional peice or counter weight, then clip the highest and best piec on the anchor with the lead rope.

then it is not a factor two fall.

and in general I try to make it a habit not to whip on the first move off the belay.

There are some weird pitches on El Cap like the 5th of ZM that have hooking straight off the belay where you'd really need to watch your ass and get creative. Also on free moves...
pyro

Trad climber
stoney point,ca
Apr 24, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
what's crack'n

The clove hitch, bad but quick method to tighten up the line. however, the weight of a fall seized the clove tight. a friend suggested prusik.
fareastclimber

Trad climber
Hong Kong & Wales
Apr 24, 2006 - 04:10pm PT
What about the caver's butterfly?
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Apr 24, 2006 - 04:26pm PT
With the possible exception of using it as a solo belay [sliding it through a locker as you lead] there isn't much application for a clove hitch in solo climbing systems. The butterfly is much easier to untie and better in virtually every application.

If you have specific questions you want answered, please write them out, number them and I'll answer them. The questions above are too general, and I'm a bit pressed for time today to wade through everything.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 24, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
Still waiting for Werner to provide some details.

Perhaps an ANAM reference?
Messages 1 - 20 of total 46 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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