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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Apr 11, 2006 - 08:00pm PT
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The "Bachar-Yerian" is 5.11a, A1 and is a trad route - ground-up and on-sight. Just clipping the bolts is a form of aid even if you never weight them. peace, jb
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sutty
Trad climber
yorkshire
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Apr 11, 2006 - 09:23pm PT
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Bachar,
Karl Baba wrote;
>For instance, Bachar had to hang on hooks to bolt "Bachar Yerian" on lead. So that means he used aid right? It wasn't completely clean. But then the onsight is finished and he can't go back and onsight FA the route right? That means virtually ALL hard routes that need bolts for pro can NEVER be trad by the purest definition.
Well that is not trad as we see it, it is sport climbing.
Now Dave may have been on the route and tried it several times, with some long falls but it was ground up with no resting on gear.
Practice has gone on from the earliest days, and even now I have not heard of the Nose having an onsight free ascent so what are all you lads doing messing about on other routes?
We are all here for the fun, and pain of it, and there has always been the odd peg to use till someone does a route better. Dave just did that.
All it needs now is for someone to do it onsight in one push to give it a true grade. Any takers?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 11, 2006 - 09:26pm PT
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Sutty.. you told me you were going to bed ya stalker....
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Apr 11, 2006 - 09:33pm PT
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I'm with BVB and have never liked the term "trad" climbing. It did not exist before sport climbing. Why not just go climbing and let others do as they please? Ethics are for easy climbs.
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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Apr 11, 2006 - 10:53pm PT
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"Ah, those brits are just mad cause we kicked their @$$es in two wars, then had to bail em out of two more. "
Dude, read a history book. In 1812 'we' - I write as both Brit and Canadian - invaded, over ran the whole North East, burnt down the White House .. then graciously handed your country back whilst we got back to the more serious business of sorting out Napoleon.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Apr 11, 2006 - 11:13pm PT
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enough of the lightweight climbing crap. you wanna talk hardcore? let's start with this guy:
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 11, 2006 - 11:45pm PT
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Hey, ain't that the drunk who FDR had to bail out before he was booted out of office by the limeys?
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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Apr 12, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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Indeed. Even drunker when he backed the original jewish occupation of Palestine. Sadly, whilst we euros figured out that was a mistake 30 years, you guys just keep sending them the aid and the guns. Apocalypse tomorrow, anyone ...?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Apr 12, 2006 - 12:47am PT
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Author:
thesiger
Trad climber
From: A desert kingdom
"Ah, those brits are just mad cause we kicked their @$$es in two wars, then had to bail em out of two more. "
Dude, read a history book. In 1812 'we' - I write as both Brit and Canadian - invaded, over ran the whole North East, burnt down the White House .. then graciously handed your country back whilst we got back to the more serious business of sorting out Napoleon. ""
So, you're saying,kind-a-sorta one out of three, not bad?
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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Apr 12, 2006 - 01:34am PT
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> So, you're saying,kind-a-sorta one out of three, not bad?
No. You won the first one in 1776-1783 (our king was mad - a small handicap). Then we beat you in the second round, 1812-1814. Then we gave you your country back. Actually Brits are world-class at handing countries back. We have handed back more countries than you people have states ...
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 12, 2006 - 01:51am PT
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After a ROYAL ass whoopin @ New Orleans courtesy of " Ol Hickory "!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Apr 12, 2006 - 01:56am PT
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Not to be too picky, Al, but remember that Jackson won the Battle of New Orleans after the War of 1812 was officially over. News didn't travel so fast in those days.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Apr 12, 2006 - 01:58am PT
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ok, whoever just dissed my man churchill ain't read jack about the early years of WWII, when britan was fukking going it alone, and sure as SH#T ain't read churchill's three-volume history of western civilization. the man was a giant, and probably the most influential figure of the 20th century, right after einstein and ghandi.
you cretins. get a rat up ya.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:04am PT
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True Bruce - just a liitle love peck to remember us by.
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:13am PT
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You don't seem to fight so hard for New Orleans these days, eh ..
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:37am PT
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Winnie was an alcoholic war monger who wanted to attack Germany through "the soft underbelly" of the Balkans. If it had been up to him, there never would have been a Normandy Landing and the Red Army would have driven their T-34s all the way to Paris. What about when he sat down with Uncle Joe Stalin and carved up Poland and, in the process, sold out the London Committee of the Polish government in exile? I thought that's why Britain declared war on Germany in 1939: to save Poland. Winnie made a speech about the Iron Curtain but never mentioned what a big part he played in raising it up. Churchill was an imperialist dinosaur who wanted to hang on to India and Singapore until FDR told him to shut his big mouth and get used to being Number 2.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:53am PT
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wtf bruce?? who you been readin'....alfred e. nueman???
just in case you missed it, FDR was pretty much one step away from the grave at yalta and didn't tell anyone, much less churchill, to "get used to being #2." not his style, even when he was in the game.
churchill cut the best deals he could at yalta. russia basically won the war for us. if hitler hadn't been stupid enought to invade russia, he could have consolidated southern europe and normandy would never have happened.
what's your point?
btw...if the "war monger" got his way, maybe 20 million lives could have been saved. yeah, i guess you're right, he was a drug-addled f*#k-up. good thing you were there to bail western civilization out.....
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Sticky
climber
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Apr 12, 2006 - 04:09am PT
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Not to put too fine a point on it ladies, but attempting to justify your attitude towards someone's first ascent based on who won which battle in 1812 and whether one country whipped another in World War (take your pick) ain't the best way to justify an argument. Doesn't matter what country someone comes from - no reason to judge them, and certainly no reason to judge their climbing efforts.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now.
Sticky
ps As for Churchill - he's very dead, and never said a bad word about you. Let him be.
pps cool send. chapeau!
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Sticky
climber
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Apr 12, 2006 - 04:09am PT
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Not to put too fine a point on it ladies, but attempting to justify your attitude towards someone's first ascent based on who won which battle in 1812 and whether one country whipped another in World War (take your pick) ain't the best way to justify an argument. Doesn't matter what country someone comes from - no reason to judge them, and certainly no reason to judge their climbing efforts.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now.
Sticky
ps As for Churchill - he's very dead, and never said a bad word about you. Let him be.
pps cool send. chapeau!
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Apr 12, 2006 - 10:27am PT
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So...it's the Yanks vs the Brits...too funny!
I must say, although I'm a Yank, I've always really appreciated the Brit sense of humor.
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