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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:05am PT
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Kinda like Bill Clinton massaging the definition of sex so that he wasn't "really" cheating...
What kind of "Be Lay" did you get Bill? Was there protection fixed? Have you gone back to "Free Soloing" yet?
It's tempting to define "trad" to include our style and exclude the style of others.
What are the hardest vices to give up when climbing at your very max limit if you're a hardman?
Dogging? Having reasonable pro? Cleaning the route? Preprotecting?
At what grade does giving up these sort of "cheats" become newsworthy?
Where is the line between style, ethics and the very category a climb is considered in. This new testspeice is not a sport climb unless you're a world class sandbagger. If it's not trad, then what?
Peace
Karl
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Apr 14, 2006 - 01:53pm PT
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Sounds like a well-rehearsed solo with the issue, to a certain undefined extent, still in doubt: If the RP wire breaks, will I really die, or just be seriously injured?
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GK
Trad climber
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Apr 25, 2006 - 05:48am PT
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Karl Baba wrote:
"Where is the line between style, ethics and the very category a climb is considered in. This new testspeice is not a sport climb unless you're a world class sandbagger. If it's not trad, then what?"
In New Zealand we often describe lines as "natural" or "naturally protected". These terms are generally inter-changeable with "traditional". Maybe for the hair splitters, describing this line as a naturally protected climb would be more suitable.
Karl also previously mentioned something to the effect that high grade lines of this type are pushing the boundries of climbing and so the ethics are pushed too. I couldn't agree more. I think we need climbing and ethics at the top end pushed as often as possible.
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Blight
Social climber
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Apr 25, 2006 - 11:58am PT
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What an absolutely buttock-clenchingly embarrassing thread this must be for americans. To see the rest of the world cheer and support this achievement then to see their own leading lights descend yet again into petty sniping, nationalism and outright lying just because the climber's not american and the climb's not in america.
Honestly, what an embarrassment you are to your country.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 25, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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Sorry Blight,
Not to difuse an opportunity to bicker, which we all no doubt apparently enjoy immensely, but It seems this thread has shown plenty of regard from both sides of the pond.
I particularly enjoyed the detour/tension reliever brought about by the historians and beer drinkers.
After carefully reading all posts, it looks to me that headpointing sits squarely between "trad(ground up, minimal bolting)" and "sport"(top down lots of bolting)", with "headpointing" (top down, very minimal bolting if any at all) holding its own unique and particular aspect of tremendous adventure.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 25, 2006 - 02:03pm PT
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Definitely it's own category
Maybe if you called them 'Reruns'
they'd get more attention over here.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Apr 25, 2006 - 02:14pm PT
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Nothing wrong with head pointing, as long as you admitt it.
I am not sure how you would rate a 5 headpointer before leading situation.
The onsight ground up rating would have to be harder than the headpointed one.
I still think this whole trad was begun with a jab, and jabs were returned.
Get that chippy of yer shoulder, wanky brits.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 25, 2006 - 02:32pm PT
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Although I say my ameliorative comments do apply, thanks for returning us to our regularly scheduled program dirtineye, as your point is as well likely true...
Let the games resume!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 25, 2006 - 02:54pm PT
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Hat's off to the Brit's
for something I can't do!
What's the hardest trad
by 'merican rules?
pizza?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 25, 2006 - 03:05pm PT
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Popcorn...
No wait, is this a trick?
We're supposed to be bickering about climbing and preserving nationalist tension...
bwahaha and yahoooo!
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tomchaps
climber
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May 15, 2006 - 05:08pm PT
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"If it ain't ground-up, on-sight - it ain't trad. Peace, jb"
Wow, I had no idea JB Tribout posted on here, and that he had such strict ethics! I'd have thought that he was more laid-back about it, given all his chipping, but...
This discussion reminds me of the guy who taught me to climb, who thought an ascent wasn't "trad" if the climber used Friends.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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May 15, 2006 - 07:10pm PT
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"yo-yo" to climb up, fall off, remove gear and start over, right? So by definition of the west coast "hardmen" any route that was put up in "yo-yo" style isn't trad? I mean, after all, you would have tried some of the moves prior and thus practiced them, no?
Nice send by Dave. 14c taking 50 footers on marginal/small gear is proud and as far as I'm concerend it's trad.
Oh, and Bachar-Yerian is also A0 for anyone that does it. After all, there is a hanging belay (that is unless you do it w/o hanging at the belay). And for that matter were there no falls taken on the FFA of Bachar-Yerian? Because if there were then moves were done more than once and thus rehersed and not trad (though as far as I'm concerned the Bachar-Yerian is very trad).
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 15, 2006 - 07:19pm PT
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Yo-yo-ing is falling, hanging, getting back up by any means but not lowering and restarting, climbign falling hagniong geting back up by any means but not lowering and restsr
omend (supposed to say stoned there)
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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May 15, 2006 - 07:23pm PT
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so "yo-yo-ing" == hangdogging. interesting.
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