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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You people up there are so quaint!
But you'd be more entertaining if you weren't so damn civil.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm also quite unenthusiastic about renaming of routes, other than in exceptional circumstances. There's something of a spectrum, but to my mind, route re-naming simply isn't on unless most or all of the following are satisfied:
 Community consensus.
Isn't confusing.
Consent of those who made the FA, if feasible.
Route has had few if any ascents.
Route is not considered of any historic or other significance.
Much time has passed, and the route has become overgrown.
A great deal of work was needed to restore the route.
Substantial variations were made.
The route's history and original name and climbers are consistently identified. Simple respect.
Too often many of these aren't met, and those involved don't come off well.
(I'll omit comment on routes that had early, transitional names, and were soon given permanent names, with the consent of the FA team. For example, "Willmott's", now named Snake, and "Willmott-Strachan Chimney" - guess which that one was?)
There's a long history of accidental and deliberate re-naming at Squamish, starting perhaps with Fred's 1959 attempt to rename the Chief "Goose Rock". No one knows why. Some other notable examples:
Artificial Land: Inadvertently renamed Sentry Box sometime between the 1962 Baldwin guide, and the 1967 Woodsworth guide.
South Arete: The original name for Squamish Buttress, now the name for a route that wasn't part of the original buttress route.
North Arete: The local name for it, but Fred insisted it be called Angel's Crest. As it was his route, his call. A bit of poetry, from Fred.
Cacodemon Crack: The first half of what Fred later called Unfinished Symphony.
Bastille: Renamed Rock On, for a route that covers much of the same ground, plus at the top intersects with an unrecorded route named Pioneer, plus the original line of Squamish Buttress. I don't know if the Rock On party knew their first pitches were on Bastille/Basteal.
University Wall: It made sense that the FFA party kept the name, although they did two significant variations (<10% of the total). A significant, well-established route. But when they returned and freed the original line, and renamed those two pitches only (#2 and #5), it just confused me. (Probably no one has ever freed the entire original line of U Wall.)
Black Bug's Blood: It probably wasn't climbed much, but was an established route. The so-called "One Scoop" route uses 75% or more the same line, plus added a large number of bolts. Without any mention of the history.
Freeway: Notably, Dean and Randy didn't purport to rename this, when they cleaned it up and completely freed it ten years after the FA. Neither did those who freed Cannabis Wall a few years ago rename it. Genius Loci is an exception, in that most of the route is independent of Ten Years After.
The list of "renamed" routes is now quite long, even allowing that some are largely new routes, use and tidy up part of an existing one, then give the whole thing a new name. Particularly on the Apron, the Papoose, and other lower-angle bits. Modern equipment and techniques allow climbers to "see" routes that may not have been feasible in the past. You end up with a patchwork grid.
There may be a place for some renaming of routes, but IMHO much less than some have attempted.
Speaking of which, Jeff and Hamish Thomson, Tami, and I recently did a new indirect start to Slab Alley. We didn't "rename" Slab Alley - that would be beyond rude, even with all the work I put into restoring that climb. And that's what I'd like to suggest - if you must, just restore existing routes, maybe with variations. (Our guidebooks now even give credit for same.) Enough of this renaming nonsense. We're thinking of naming the new variation "Due Diligence - FTG".
As for the left side of Yosemite Pinnacle, even I got up it (sort of) without the chicken bolt. Why in the world would anyone add bolts to Clean Corner? Enough of this "plaisir" climbing crap. A short, steep slippery slope, often promoted by those with motives other than protecting the experience of climbing.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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lets fire up the birdwalk bandwagon and get with the times rather than tilting at the Moody Blues windmill.
I had a class in college where we analyzed stuff like that to figure out what it really meant but that was a long time ago.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Artificial Land: Inadvertently renamed Sentry Box sometime between the 1962 Baldwin guide, and the 1967 Woodsworth guide.
Don't look at me! I'm not responsible for that renaming!
I saw no reason to rename Crap Crags (Europa, I think). Why Europa??? What was wrong with Crap Crags???
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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I have been pondering this renaming conundrum.......and have come up with 2 suggestions:
1. Anyone who does a new route in the alpine is then entitled to rename the WHOLE MOUNTAIN, at least until the next new route is established.
2. It's time to rename Squamish. There are already 2 possible choices, Squish and Squampton. Any other ideas?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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2. It's time to rename Squamish. There are already 2 possible choices, Squish and Squampton. Any other ideas?
How about Goose Rock? That has a nice ring to it.....
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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O.K., O.K., I got it. We get more yanks up there and they start renaming all the routes with their favorite dribble. Whoa. Stop me.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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I can't wait for some good old yankee carne asada on Psyche Ledge this weekend. See y'all at The Goose!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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That will get it done. About three skirt steaks at a time. Who is hungry?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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MH couldn't take it anymore :-)
Thanks MH!
Lots of good posts.
Is sacrificial lamb @ gobsmacking wall a play on artificial land?
Wow, goose rock. That woulda been a shame. The Chief is a way more bitchen name for a rock formation.
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Why don't we take a page out of Prince's book. After a free ascent, Crap crags would become "the route formally know as crap crags" or Freeway could become Wayfree.
All kidding aside, changing names is somewhat disrespectful to the original ascensionists and the historical value of those names.
The Persian community in North Vancouver is an ethnic group that has certainly enriched our city. They are good business people and since coming here after'79 own a lot of the stores on Lonsdale ave, our main street. Several years ago they went to city council to push to have the name changed to an Iranian name. This is the same thing, a total lack of respect for the existing community that originally named it over one hundred years ago.
Bottom line, respect the people that came before you whether it be rock or road.
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Catburglar
Trad climber
Vancouver
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renaming routes it is totally lame, and seems to be more of a Squamish "thing". Other than changing the "East Face of Washinton Column" to "Astroman", I am not aware of any other name changes in Yos. none of the routes which have been freed on EC have been renamed, The FFAists are all bigger than that, and don't need the ego trip.
Hmmm... Golden Gate = The Heart route, El Nino = North America Wall, El Corazan = Son of Heart and Flight of the Albatross, Passage to Freedom = New Dawn, The Prophet = Bad to the Bone and Eagles Way, Secret Passage = Eagles Way and Bad to the Bone.
Re-naming freed aid routes is commonplace and is often more of a necessity in order to keep things clear and concise rather than an effort to disregard the first ascenscionists efforts and contribution. If I freeclimb the trade route of El Cap should i say ``i just freed most of Salathe, except the part where i had to move left into Bermuda Dunes,on pitch 23 i had to detour off of Salathe for a pitch, before the headwall i had to move left and finish up the final pitches of Excaliber``? Or can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?
I think on a much smaller scale this is what is going on in Squamish, people aren't going to want to say "today i climbed parts of The Bastille, before the top of the Bastille I moved left into Rock On"
It kind seems to me like the ego trip is coming from your end Hamie.
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MH2
climber
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can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?
No. You say, "I did the Free Salathe." Unless there is more than one.
Yeah, that would work. If we were bloodless conformists.
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Catburglar
Trad climber
Vancouver
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MH2. I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but if I were to climb the Freerider and claim a free ascent of the Salathe I'd be be wandering into Maestri-Cesen land, the freerider totally avoids the the 5.13 headwall of the the Free Salathe.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Renaming freed aid routes has a long history, not just in Yos but in the "crucible of free climbing" namely Britan
You think Hubble and Mecca take their names from the boring old bolt ladders that climbed thru the overhangs at Ravens Tor?
Doubt it.
When Chris Craggs put up "Free This You Sport Climbing Bastards" and it got freed, the new name "The Bastard" made much more sense.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Who is cat burglar? There's a route at Castle Rock of that name.
Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged, and when done should have respect, clarity and consensus.
Looking at it another way, there's lots of unclimbed rock at Squamish. Those wanting a personal monument are free to clean it up, climb it, and give it a name - without disrespecting others, and the history. Most such routes may quickly fall into oblivion, given the bell curve. Another issue.
As a sociologist friend puts it, much climber behaviour can be simply explained in terms of adolescent males. Or, as Perry puts it, peeing on the corner posts.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged,
Speak for yourself Anders, not for everybody else. Only half a dozen or so people have commented here, and about half of them seem to believe that route-renaming is sometimes fine. So where do you get the idea that "we seem largely in agreement"? Who is this "we"? (Maybe the Royal We????)
My guess is that most folks would agree that route-renaming should be done with consideration for community consensus. That in general it's not a good idea, but sometimes is fine. But that's just my guess, not my statement about what "we" think.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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which Sonnie Trotter will promptly send, then rename it Smell of Grumpy Old Men Clinging to the Past in a unguarded and probably drunken moment at a psyche ledge party.... then change his mind upon pressure from community consensus.... or maybe not?
Anders, is this in reference to a specific event??
Cat burglar, welcome to ST.
Despite your position on renaming routes(which is just fine) please be aware that Hamie is kinda the man around here & deserves no disrespect for his opinion. Particularly since more than a few of his routes have been either partially or completely reno'd or renamed over the years. Telling him that he's on an ego trip as your first ever post as an anonymous user here makes you appear to be a TIT (troll in training). I hope in the future you will contribute but please leave the comments that will lead to heated exchanges to BK & MH as they are way more entertaining.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Typical lawyerly truth-bending .
Renaming a freed route is fine.
Zombie Roof, not Rat Burger
There, I said it.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thank you for nibbling at my ever so lame attempt at trolling - it is most kind of you to have done so, and will surely reinforce my self-esteem. "Every troll gets at least one bite" seems to be the motto.
These vexing matters should be referred to the Bughouse Heights/Hospital Hill/South Ridge/Little Smoke Bluffs/Smokey Bluffs/Smoke Bluffs Morals & Ethics Committee, for an utterly indecisive result.
(Skunk Hollow, being more or less what is now Valleycliffe, omitted.)
We have now returned and climbed the climb formerly known as Slab Alley ("TCFKASA"), including the new indirect stepladder start, and while doing so removed several specks of lichen and some of Bruce's chicken bolts. It was a laborious, tortuous and frightening ascent, and really, our experience was completely different from anyone else's. As a result, a new name seemed apropos. We thought about renaming the route "Monument to Climbers with Big Egos and Wee Willies", but decided instead to call it Slab Alley. Has a nice ring, doesn't it?
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