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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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Dec 19, 2017 - 03:33pm PT
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I'm guessing you may not understand how to do the "new" Grigri quick-feed?
I could see not liking a Grigri if you try to use it like an ATC.
But once you learn to quick feed and use it like most dedicated, experienced sport climbers do (which is to pretty much stand there and throw out rope with the quick-feed), life is good.
I wrote following in the other thread:
No doubt Grigri (now version 2 and soon version Plus) is the MOST popular auto-lock (they call it assist braking) device. To anyone who claim that Grigri equals short roping or even dropping, please allow me to be blunt — open up your mind and be humble. If you don’t learn the skills, Grigri can be everything bad; but if you are willing to spend the time to master the skills, Grigri can provide the best belay experience a leader can ask for. That said, there are a few things I don’t like about it (in comparison with what we have available today):
1) Heavy
2) Moving parts on the device.
3) This is the last straw for me: I find that the bend to the side (required for fast rope payout) might ever slightly introduce a little twist into the rope when feeding through. The effect becomes prominent on full 80m rope cragging, where at the end of the lowering, I have to constantly shake out the kinks.
4) Designed for right handed people (don't matter to me, but I know people who have trouble with it).
This is where Click-Up would shine. Light (My BD ATC Guide 88g; ClickUp 120g, Grigri 2 185g), no moving parts, feeds just like an ATC, and rope goes straight in and out, also works the same whichever hand you prefer for braking. Watch the video on this excellent review piece: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3498
I prefer the feeding motion of both hands with an ATC like device, although I have no problem with Grigri. Simply sharing my great experience with a device that has not caught on in the US. Click-up (made in Italy) has been around for many years and is more popular in Europe from what I heard.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 19, 2017 - 04:13pm PT
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I'm not staring down my nose, but rather at the fact such devices breed incompetence on a mass scale,
Yeah, like that rgold guy. Totally incompetent. I hear he was a dependable partner back in the day, but ever since he started using that new-fangled Alpine Up thing, he's become dangerous to rope up with...
Not.
Which is not to say that reliance on a device -- any device -- instead of your brain doesn't lead to danger, but that's a function of the operator, not the device. People who are incompetent with a gri-gri would probably be incompetent with an ATC, or a munter, or a hip belay.
And I'll bet you don't use a hip belay for belaying and a body-wrap for rappelling, right? And hemp ropes. And rough woolen clothing. And leather sandals...
People who complain about new equipment remind me of the old story about Winston Churchill...
“Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"
Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... "
Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!"
Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”
If you're dumping on the latest generation of climbing technology, but using technology from the previous generation...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Dec 19, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
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As I understand it, the Revo was released for a short time however Wildcountry was dissatisfied with the rope diameter range. It has gone to a new manufacturer and should be re-released sometime this winter or early spring... I think.
I'm hoping it self feeds a little smoother than the Grigri for self belay however smooth self-feeding could result in a whole host of other issues. I definitely wouldn't rush out and take falls on it.
Correction- not self feeding- pulling slack at a stance.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 19, 2017 - 04:56pm PT
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I'm hoping it self feeds a little smoother than the Grigri for self belay however smooth self-feeding could result in a whole host of other issues. I definitely wouldn't rush out and take falls on it.
Correction- not self feeding- pulling slack at a stance.
The Revo feeds way better than the Grigri and Silent Partner.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2017 - 05:03pm PT
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People who are incompetent with a gri-gri would probably be incompetent with an ATC, or a munter, or a hip belay.
Except the latter three don't actively breed incompetence.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Dec 19, 2017 - 05:25pm PT
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Batrock, walk away from these loony tunes.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 19, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
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You are right Jeff, see you tomorrow.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 20, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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. . . that said, there are a few things I don’t like about it (in comparison with what we have available today):
1) Heavy
2) Moving parts on the device.
3) This is the last straw for me: I find that the bend to the side (required for fast rope payout) might ever slightly introduce a little twist into the rope when feeding through. The effect becomes prominent on full 80m rope cragging, where at the end of the lowering, I have to constantly shake out the kinks.
4) Designed for right handed people (don't matter to me, but I know people who have trouble with it). . . .
Good points, I can tell you know much more about Grigri than I guessed (as people I've seen not like them don't know how to do quick-feed).
Your point (3) is interesting: I've heard people claim Grigri twists rope; my rope often seems to get twisted whether I use Grigri or not (e.g., from lowering two horizontally spaced, poorly oriented rings), so I never know if the Grigri is to blame!
If so, that could be a good reason to use another device.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 20, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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Except the latter three don't actively breed incompetence.
Agreed, the mis-percieved fail-safe nature breeds complacency. I've seen complete noobs handed a gri-gri, given about 2 minutes of "instruction" and left alone to belay someone with zero further oversight. I've never seen that occur with an ATC or similar.
Gri-gris are great devices, but they really should be for fully competent ATC users ONLY. Learn on an ATC, show competence and attentiveness for a year or two before moving on and only with instruction by someone competent.
I'd also like to see gyms have a some sort of policing on their mis-use, as it is way too common and never called out.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 20, 2017 - 10:19am PT
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I'm not staring down my nose, but rather at the fact such devices breed incompetence on a mass scale, but carry on...
Such devices don't do anything, let alone breed....they simply.. are...
That being said my partner's Alpine up of one kind or another has been catching my large self for about 3-4 years now. Slick product IMO.
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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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Dec 20, 2017 - 11:42am PT
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I've heard people claim Grigri twists rope; my rope often seems to get twisted whether I use Grigri or not (e.g., from lowering two horizontally spaced, poorly oriented rings), so I never know if the Grigri is to blame!
If so, that could be a good reason to use another device. I actually never heard that before until I experienced it. When I used a Grigri and a Click-Up at the same crag with the same rope back to back, the difference was telling. Today, I was at the gym. While feeding out rope when my partner down climbed (on toprope, so feeding motion is similar to slow feed for lead belay), I meditated staring at the rope going through the Grigri. With the sheath pattern, it is not difficult to visualize the gradual twist (one round every few feet). That said, I'll continue to use my Grigri at the gym since the rope is short and it's easy to alternate the pull end so twists never stay or accumulate.
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 20, 2017 - 11:55am PT
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Rgolds spiffy discourse about the Click up over on Mountain Project convinced me I should buy myself one for Christmas. It's been wet and cold here so I haven't gotten it out, but it looks like it may be my preferred belay device for some climbs. NOT long multi-pitch say, but more like going over to Smith to catch friends dogging sport routes and perhaps toproping. I like how well it feeds out.
THANKS RICH!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 17, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
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Bump for the Alpine Up/Click-up...
My main rock partner uses both and has had great success for a number of years.
Just about to order both and am bumping this thread for any other pros/cons or issues people have had.
Particularly if anyone has tried the alpine-up with frozen/gritty/nasty doubles.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Dec 17, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
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Supposedly the Bandai Tuttukibak works to take the place of many devices. Anyone tried one?
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