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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
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so your the information you published for catch the wave is accurate, and you climbed the route, and that is where your beta came from? or you never climbed it, and your sh#t is way off, and you wont admit it?
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:13pm PT
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It says in the book that I didn't climb it. Says "from what I hear" right there in the description, no stars, no letter grades on the difficulties. If I didn't climb it, then I didn't claim to.
The information that I got for that route was a combination of information from Andy Hoyt and Roger Pollard. I have already admitted there are routes with incomplete information in the first book. That was book one and the reason for a second.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
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Here is a few pictures of the bolts I have pulled along the Seward Highway since October.
I counted 85. The piton was the third piece in an anchor and not necessary after two new anchor bolts.
It doesn't look like I am the one having a problem with admitting they are wrong here.
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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:27pm PT
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incomplete means i that something is missing dead flat wrong information on a route is not what most people call incomplete.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:31pm PT
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Still hiding behind your alias. Want to continue this conversation then comon out behind it. Could just admit your Hoyt and that you are the one who gave me the info. Then what? I will go out and climb the route this summer as already planned. The information will change for the next book. I don't know if it is wrong as I just stated I did not climb it. If it is wrong then it will be changed and you will have to find something else to complain about.
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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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consider your sources dude
somebody who hasnt climbed up there in decades, or
somebody who has been climbing up there For decades, but cant remember what he had for breakfast that day
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:41pm PT
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haha when you say it like that it seems like you could eliminate half the climbing community up here.
Still hiding though, that makes me wonder on your sources.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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Kelsey - Andy doesn't live in Palmer.
Your book is full of misinformation. Long story short it sucks. That's what happens when someone writes a book about something they know nothing about. How about the retrobolts at Hatchers? Your book makes them all sound original. Another attempt at rewritting history? How about the slack line bolts? They didn't last long though. Again shame on the ASCA for helping this kid f*#k up our crags.
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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
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I climbed a route with andy this summer in hp. Obvious route, in full view of the road, awsome hand traverse out roof to 20 meter handcrack on 2nd of 4 roped pitches. 5 stars. When i asked him why it wasnt in the guidebook, he said dont get me started, and catch the wave if 5.10 yeah right. some elaboration on that, obviously very knowledgable of the area
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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So John at least we are getting to the point here. You are pissed at me for everyones retrobolting. No matter how long ago it was. Why don't you get a hobby?
So Johnson your souce is someone who can't remember his breakfast that morning? I could not include everything in the book. More will be in the next. If you think something should be in there then speak up. Otherwise don't just complain, it's useless.
Your crags? I've never once seen you climbing out there. Ever.
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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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I think john is pissed at you because he come from a way different school than you. John climbs some serious and hard shiz, he has been for a long time. John doesnt clip or place a whole lot of bolts. The approaches alone to the "routes" that he does would crush most "athletes". John doesnt spray very hard. Call this "old school"
this old school guy sees "new school"
oh boy i got my top rope card and i am really psyched, lets write a guidebook. Yay!!! spray....
Old schools gut reaction is too call out "new school"
new school gets new school.
when called out he refuses to admit he has no clue and should have listend to the people he talked to pre-guidebook... makes ass out of self publicly
Usually at this point most people would maybe try to gain some experience...
new school proceeds to spray and whore self out to asca
wastes time on climbings top ten worst crag instead of learning how to walk before he learns to spray.
new school sprays about waste of time
old school gut reaction to call him out again
guy from palmer tells new school that he isnt fit to carry old schools garbage out.
and dont start some retarded thread like a "bolt chopping question" if you have replaced 80 so far you have obviously got it figured out. quit shopping for attention. Go spend some of you free time finding the better crags in alaska that are out there.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
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Actually I pulled those bolts but had some that would not come out so I had to cut them but wanted to ask the experienced folks here what there ideas were. I could just run out and do it anyway I could think of but wanted to approach the best way I could.
John does them alone because he gets in a fight with his climbing partner then leaves him miles in while he drives away with all the guys gear. It would suck to have to climb alone because nobody trusts you. He sure knows a lot about the highway for someone who doesn't clip a lot of bots. What crap. Don't try to make this a new school vs old school thing. He's not even from here.
You sound like some suck up kid who thinks he knows all just because he hung around with someone"old school". This is my last response to you unless you want to come out behind your alias.
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bigdamnjohnson
climber
palmer, alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
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im not going to tell you my name, i dont need you misquoting me in the next version of your "guidebook"
this is what you are missing
i dont really want to hear a response from you, i think instead you should focus your energies to write an ACCURATE, COMPLTETE, book to south central alaska that includes a majority of the known areas, not simply the majority that are known to you
if you have problems getting information from your predecesors, dont bitch about it, do what they did. put on a pack, go find the climbs. King mountain sounds nice. Will it be in your next guide? are you too lazy to hike up there? Or leave it out entirely and hold a grudge against Skine because he wont carry you up there and ropegun for you?
Riding on the laurals of being a "guidbook author" and conning the asca into giving you a bunch of bolts is kinda weak. at least replace bolts that actually need it, and on quality climbs, instead of encourgaing people to climb on dangerous shitty rock.
Just keep on spraying while the rest of us keep playin
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
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You really need to get your facts straight.
A half dozen Grade V and VI FA's in the last year. One solo and the rest with partners. Some old, some new. All to hard for you.
As for "old school" I learned to climb in NC 25 years ago. How long have you been at it? You tried to write a guide book after your 2nd or 3rd year, no wonder it sucks. Now we have a rookie with a power drill and no ethics or even a hint of respect.
I like the "left my partner in the woods". You've got that story way wrong. I have NEVER left any of my climbing partners.
As far as needing a hobby... you put in 85 new bolts for me.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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Well thats a step although I have no idea what you mean by mosquitoing.
There is a lot of climbing in this state. You really expect someone to do Everything before a book is written? What you expect is a climbing dictionary of all routes the first time? Lots of people wanted a book and they don't care if it doesn't have every single route in it the first time. They just wanted to have an idea on where to climb since there were no guidebooks! First Steps was an "old school" guidebook and it had about 80 routes at most as far as I can tell. Are you saying they shouldn't have published it? You are letting your frustrations cloud your intelligence. Perhaps you would have been more satisfied if I had said "A collection of routes from Southcentral Alaska" then your whining would have less validity.
I put on a pack and went and climbed a whole lot of routes. Then some of those who refused to tell me any information got pissed because I didn't call it exactly what they wanted or did it differently then they did. I am not the one being pissy because my routes are not exactly like I wanted.
I have nothing at all against Skine. No grudge in any way or form. I respect both him and Kirsten and although they didn't want to contribute to the book I still appreciated their friendliness as the crag. Like I said, nobody has to contribute that is entirely their prerogative. I have had no current intentions of heading up to King Mountain. I feel they are still developing it and it is not a good time to open it up to the public, I would also like to do so with their consent which may or may not ever come. Still it is their choice.
I did not ride on anything to receive bolts from the ASCA. I will continue to rebolt because it is something I enjoy doing and I think it is making a difference. I started on the highway and will move into Hatcher Pass and other areas as the snow allows. I will continue to do this even if I have to pay for it myself. Do not get pissed at me just because I am not bolting what you want me to. If you are so upset then try doing something for someone other then yourself and beat me to it. If someone else was out there replacing bolts I really wouldn't mind. I think its necessary here. I enjoy the routes that I am rebolting, they are fun and some get lots of traffic. The routes that are deemed to dangerous will not be getting new bolts and will be placed as dangerous in the next book.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 08:03pm PT
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We could do this whole "your facts are wrong" garbage all day John. I did not try to write a book after my second or third year. I climbed routes up to 5.12 while writing the guidebook, those are all to hard for you. What does that mean? NOTHING! You are climbing differently then I. Just because I don't really like freezing my ass off in a gully of ice doesn't mean I don't have my own set of strengths.
I am not going to argue this old school stuff with you. Just because I have zero respect for a thief and a liar such as yourself doesn't mean I don't respect the climbers before or around me.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 08:32pm PT
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Removing retrobolts doesn't make someone a thief. CSP considers anything left unattended for over 24hrs as abandoned.
Hoytt and Varney took you on your first trip to Hatchers. It was only a few years before your book came out. I took you on your first ice climbing trip. I even loaned you gear. That was before I knew how big of a jackass you are.
You're completely clueless.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 20, 2011 - 10:00pm PT
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Dew Mound is going to be in the next guide FYI.
What kind of credentials would you like? Certification of the space program? How about I have never rebolted something I haven't climbed.
You assume to tell me I have no say yet give nothing of use yourself.
John you are vastly off as far as Hoyt and Varney taking me on my first trip to the valley. Ive never actually climbed with Varney only met him once at Goats Head Soup. This is a good time to admit you were wrong. Admit you have sprayed false information about me and about what I am doing. Lets see if you have the balls to admit your mistakes. Yes I went ice climbing with you and that was my first time ice climbing. I appreciated it, it was far from my first time rock climbing however and I am still amazed at how much of a jerk you morphed into. If you want a medal for it your not getting one. I know this is because of how you like to present yourself over the internet. This display you create does not make you look more of a man.
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coldclimb
climber
Wasilla, Alaska
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Feb 20, 2011 - 10:16pm PT
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For what it's worth, and to help prevent some of the climbing community outside Alaska from being swayed by rumors without being around to know for themselves what's going on, here's a few points from a local in close contact with prezwoodz on a daily basis:
Kelsey hasn't placed any ASCA bolts except in direct replacement of other old manky bolts. He's got the rack of old manky bolts to prove it, and they number MORE than the ASCA bolts he's been given.
Kelsey has worked with the local FAs regarding their routes, and the vast majority are all for distributing information and improving the safety of the routes. I can list a number of them off the top of my head that have given him direct explicit permission to rebolt or even ADD bolts to any of their routes, and that is because he approached them and asked about that, and they trust his judgment. There's really not a lot of negative feeling about his efforts, but what there is is from a small group of very vocal individuals. Which leads to my next point:
John Kelley has a history of antagonism and animosity in the local climbing community. He's pulled bolts, been involved in physical and legal disputes with his climbing partners, and just generally been the source of a lot of discontent.
The last guy who tried to make a guidebook for this area suffered everything from light negativity to outright death threats, and wound up not carrying it through. Kelsey writing a guide at all has been a seriously impressive effort (He did it in a year of non-stop climbing, living in his jeep at the base of each crag he worked and making the effort to climb every single route he put in the guide), and has done an enormous amount of help to the local climbers who don't have an in to get route information from established old-schoolers.
So there's a couple points of perspective anyway, if it matters, from one who grew up climbing right here in Southcentral Alaska starting fifteen years ago.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 20, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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Kelley
Kelsey
If you think there is anyone out here listening, everyone needs to ditch their avatar.
This is not a good one.
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