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richross
Trad climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
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Gunks, Coexistence,late 80's
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bmacd
Trad climber
Certified KooK 100% Canadian
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Sep 24, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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weld_it correctly observes: accid-net already happened
Photos clearly show these twin rope climbers are under the influence of hallucinogens
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 11:37pm PT
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HaHaHa- perspicacious analysis from Weld_It.
I must admit I was somewhat bemused by the disaster potential which, happily, was unrealized.
Of course, all concerned would have been fully covered by their Swedish socialist system.
Personally, I would rarely consider going on a major alpine climb without double ropes.
Having used it extensively I am appreciative of its advantages and tolerant of its potential for a royal clusterphuk.
This shot is a good example of how it minimizes rope drag and the need to use lengthy runners...
You can see that Ulf was able to get pro on both sides of the arete.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Sep 25, 2010 - 09:50am PT
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We do.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 25, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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Does two belayers count?!?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Sep 25, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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rick a ^^^^
that pic reminds me of the last(3'rd)pitch of T. Zone. but that ain't granite, and i ain't been there in a long while...
edit: the first photo, not the second.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 25, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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It seems to me that smaller diamater ropes (aka doubles) twist easier than fat ropes.
It is annoying to deal with a twisted single, but it is extremely rare for the belayer (meaning my partner or I) to ever not be able to keep up with the climber (lead or second).
Dealing with a twisted double (even if it is no more common) too often means that the belayer can't keep up with the climber (shaking out a rope that is twisted to both itself and partner rope and trying to get both through the atc with the appropriate slack for whichever is beiing clipped--and yes, I've had a few years practice, its only a problem when there are twists.). Instead of being annoyed, I'm apoplectic that upward progress is being limited by the belayer (I guess fast and light is too hard wired into my style--even when time is not of the essence). The situations where doubles are useful don't make up for the times when I'm conscious that they are slowing us down. So sure, a wandering climb on a blocky route (ie big belay ledges) where the descent takes two ropes, but I don't find myself on that route much.
And I'm not trying to ruin anyones double rope fun (well, not too much), but the OP seemed to think that the lack of double rope usage is only from ignorance. It aint.
cheers
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Sep 27, 2010 - 12:25am PT
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A few responses to comments about double ropes.
1. The pictures posted were in response to whether people here used them. They were neither selected nor intended to specifically demonstrate the utility of double ropes.
2. Double ropes have a number of advantages, only one of which is dealing with wandering routes.
3. It is true that in many cases, a single rope can be routed through wandering protection pieces by using long slings. On crags where there may be nearby things for a falling leader to hit, long slings on certain pieces may not be a happy thing. But even when hitting things isn't a problem, the straighter rope paths obtainable with double ropes means less system stiffness. I suspect this is the reason that many people are convinced that double ropes provide softer catches, despite the fact that when tested, single half-rope strands do not have lower peak impact forces than for full ropes.
4. Twisting. I've been using Mammut Genesis ropes for quite a few years now. I've never had any twisting problems at all---none. But I do take the precaution, if the stance allows it, of not tying in on the first pitch until the ropes have been taken up by the belayer, which allows the ropes to untwist as much as possible before such twists as there are are ``locked in'' by the second tying in. The same procedure is valuable for a single rope.
I think that in some cases twists in each strand can be introduced by improper untwisting technique for double strands. If the double strands are twisted, they ought to be untwisted by the climber rotating on a vertical axis, which is how the twists were created. Putting one strand over the head and then stepping over it (perhaps more than once) will separate twisted stands, but will leave the original twist in one strand and introduce even more twisting in the manipulated strand.
By the way, twisting occurs in a single rope if the climber rotates on a vertical axis too. Double ropes provide immediate evidence of such twists, but with a single rope, you only find out if and when the rope begins to kink.
5. Clusterphucks. I don't think they are a major problem, but they can happen when you can't just pile the ropes on a ledge and they certainly are a pain. I'm not fond of ropes smaller than 8.5mm in diameter; the smaller ones seem more prone to bad behavior. Good flaking technique matters, but you can't always get those hanging loops properly graduated while managing the ropes during the belay.
For multipitch routes where time matters, I've found that the Metolius Rope Hook completely eliminates tangling problems at hanging belays. The reason is because the belayer lifts the loops off the hook and drops them, rather than pulling them out as has to be done when the ropes are flaked over either a sling, the belay tie-in, or the belayer's feet. When loops are pulled, they can lasso other loops and drag them along, but this never happens when the loops are simply lifted off the hook and dropped. Yeah, its another gimmick to carry, and I don't do it on smaller crags, but it is worth bringing a pair of rope hooks along on longer climbs if you are using double ropes.
6. I think the biggest drawback of double ropes is their weight. At the top of a long pitch, you may notice the rope weight hanging off you, especially if you are used to climbing on skinny singles.
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Paul
Trad climber
Muir Beach, CA
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Sep 27, 2010 - 01:38am PT
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Just spent two weeks in Yo (Tuolumne/Ditch) climbing with the wife and Niece. Nothing but doubles and we moved faster than most.
Ya, the single is nice with one, but doubles serve their purpose.
I will take doubles, any day, on a first ascent which gives multiple safety measures. Anyone else posting otherwise is a newbie-wannabe.
;)
P
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LAP
Boulder climber
Golden, Co
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Sep 27, 2010 - 09:27am PT
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My husband and I like to use double ropes most of the time. We tend to climb easier routes that wonder up the path of least resistence.
Lucinda
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 27, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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BINTD it was a single 11m for me. launched into some fairly comitting climbs with no clue as to how to get down if something bad happened. These days I am old and chicken. anything multi pitch its doubbles for me. has little to do with the wandering protectrion thing and everything to do with the ability to bail easily, protection from cut ropes, ability to distribute loads to 2 diferent pieces in a single location by clipping one rope to each piece, ease of self rescue especialy when retrieveing stuck ropes. Just a few weeks ago we got the ropes stuck rapping P6 of a back country rt in NH. yellow rope hopelessly wedged in a crack. i lead back up on the red rope to free it. No problem. Heck I have pulled that move at least 3 times over the years..
Single rope for cragging is certainly the way to go but doubbles for anything commiting is a huge peace of mind factor for me. Most clusters and twisting issues are user error.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Sep 27, 2010 - 11:15am PT
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"amercan belyars are too stupid to do two ropes at a time and can bearly do one."
Just search "Hot Belayer Magazine" on the taco...
you can see many reasons why two ropes... is a.. uhm.. bad idea for merican climber types...
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Sep 27, 2010 - 11:16am PT
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Some more half rope pics -
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