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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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I'd never rappel off a single anchor unless my survival depended on getting on it. Anybody who raps off a single anchor is asking for trouble. Things can go wrong, bolts can be faulty, etc.
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Gene
Social climber
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one piece of webbing to one tree and one link.
How big is the tree?
How big/new is the webbing. How's it tied?
Got me on the single link.
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jewedlaw
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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You aren't proving anything by rapping of a single sling/biner, but you are if one of those elements fails.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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between my rap device, my rap locker, my belay loop on the harness and the single link - the link is the strongest part. All the other parts are single/non-redundant as well and they are never questioned. The only parts of a normal climbers' rappel system that aren't redundant or backed up are the rope(s), the harness, and possibly the brain(s). The rappel carabiner and rappel device are usually backed up by a prusik or equivalent. Equally pertinent, apparent or nominal strength is irrelevant when it comes to whether or not an anchor, or any part of the belay/rappel chain, is as strong as it appears or is believed.
Certainly there are times when a single anchor must be relied on - but providing a backup is often simple and quick, and given the number of apparently bomb-proof rappel anchors that have failed, makes abundant sense.
Don't get me started on idiots who set up elaborate top-rope anchors using abundant equipment - and then run the rope through a single carabiner.
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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An single ablakov with 6mm perlon- it happens all the time.
single point rappeling on a regular basis while cragging?
No thanks.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Rigging and Rescue applications......bad JUJU.
Climbing..... all of the time.
Drill a bolt, lower down to the beers.
All of the alpinist should chime in here, Man those guys will rap off of anything...Bollard! (SP)?
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middle joe
Trad climber
oc
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Humm..
Very familiar with canyoneering technique and ATS.
Canyoneer’s generally make crappy (cheap) anchors! And if you make a good (redundant) anchor in the canyons the cheap bastards will just booty your redundant link. I will say that a rap (only) anchor does not need to as strong as climbing anchor because it will never see a factor II fall. But if ATS is teaching non-redundant anchors, and I hope their not, someone is gunna die! ATS will be sued and put out of business..
My advice: practice “Last man at risk” in the canyons. Back-up the existing anchor to whatever extent you deem necessary/safe. The last man down, your most experienced (or maybe the lightest canyoneer, depending on the situation), breaks down the redundant anchor and raps on the existing anchor.
Have I done it? Yep! Will I do it again? Depends on the penalty points..
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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One tree, if stout enough, is OK in my book.
There is just no excuse for single slings and rings. None.
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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In general, I avoid single-biner single-webbing raps like the plague. I'd have a heart attack rapping off a single rap-ring.
But in ugly circumstances, things happen. Like a single non-locker on this:
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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I totally agree with no single sling and ring. There is a reason why I carry booty biners - you can add them to the mix when you are staring at that single ring.
There is a lot to be said about traveling light. However, there is no reason to carry absolutely nothing and hang it all out there. Cord, slings, and a biner cost less than the copay for an ER visit and the phone call to spouse.
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Critter
Trad climber
State of Jefferson
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One of the strongest webbing anchors that can be built off of a tree is the "wrap 3 pull 2" or just wrap 2 pull 2. this is what is used in swift water rescue, where forces often reach the breaking point of carabiners, and the melting points of prussiks.
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MisterE
Social climber
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^^Right on with the wrap-3-pull-2, I trust it like a redundant anchor (if the tree is solid).
I actually trust the aluminum rap-rings (qualifier: no obvious wear) after trying to crush a new one with a bench vise years ago. It took a 3-foot extension pipe.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Still gonna die if that one 3/2 fails. We are talking redundancy here...
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Sonic
Trad climber
Folsom, California
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I've done the ATS class and you only want to rap off something like that is its all you have! Darren would frown upon you
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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The weak point is the slings. If its new and no sharp edges then its ok but I hate sun faded crapola. Single ring or biner is bomber. I routinly break climbing rope with old booty biners. If rapping from a single biner I tape the gate shut. My #1 logging biner is an old locker that froze shut on me ice climbing. I was real cold, tired and sick. I had no patience to try and get the locking collar freed up. I wanted to go home so I hammered the gate open with my ice tool. The locking collar broke but the gate still works. No one in their right mind would use this mangled biner for climbing. I broke a 10.2mm rope with it a few weeks ago skidding a 50ft maple up a hill when the butt of the log hung up on a stump.
Single biner or ring is 200% fine for rapell. Never heard of even one case of a biner or rap ring failing on a rapell. Lots of times the slings fail, rarely the rope cuts. The biners and the rings never fail rapelling. All the biner failures I have ever heard of were falls with open gate, nose caught on bolt or biner broken over edge. never heard of a single rap ring failur other than them getting grooved out from lowering.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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bailed off of a single #10 stopper : / didn't have much fun.
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Gene
Social climber
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Bailed off a chicken head the size of a chicken's head. Sometimes options are limited. But I knew it at the time.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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^^^That's what I'm talkin about!
WHOOOOOOP!
HOOK or DIE!!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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How about a neve snow bollard? Yikes!
I'll take a faded runner round a termited oak and an old aluminum ring in Yose.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Climbers using quick links on rappel anchor....what size/strength of quick links are you using?
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