welded shuts question

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Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 24, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
What is an acceptable failure rate for welded shuts as lower off anchors? I've been welding some up in shop class and have since found out that the welds are not really that strong (at least the way I'm doing it LOL) Since there are always two at an anchor how big of a problem is this?

And before you flame me, I know what I'm doing (3rd year of shop) and have been climbing a long time (2 years +) so save your hate for someone else.
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
Feb 24, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
50% or so sounds OK.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 24, 2010 - 01:51pm PT
Sounds a bit scary... hopefully someone that knows somethign will chime in, interesting.

I personally am saving my hate for Simon Cowell.

He's such a jerk. And I always sing out of key, its my style.
Some wounds just don't heal.



Best of luck!
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Feb 24, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
I wouldn't expect them to basically EVER fail.
So maybe...50 years MTBF?

have been climbing a long time (2 years +)

When I'd been climbing "2 years +", I didn't feel like I'd been climbing a long time.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:03pm PT



2 years=n00b
DCCC

Trad climber
Castle Rock, CO
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
From my experience, welded coldshuts are plenty strong for lowering off at the belay when placed in tandem.
The real issue with coldshuts is that the repeated use of lowering and toproping wears grooves into the relatively soft metal.
I have been working on replacing many twenty year old coldshut anchors at my local crags.
I would advise against using shuts as protection on route since they are inadequate for repeated falls.
As with all lowering station anchors, cold shuts get grooved with repeated use and require periodic replacement.
This is why it is generally preferable to use something like the beefy Fixe anchors with quick links, chain and descending rings, as the descending rings are more easily replaced.
Srbphoto

Trad climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
What is an acceptable failure rate for welded shuts as lower off anchors?

If I'm climbing, zero. If your climbing, as many ground falls as you're willing and able to take.
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
Weld-it..... Zero failure is about right.

How are you testing em?

Are you the person who is putting in "new stations" at Stoney?

GK
Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
For me I would say the acceptable rate for failure at regular loads is 0. If it breaks after 500lbs or so of pressure thats just not good enough. Also ive been climbing for 7 years or so and I still feel like a noob lots of the time. Its best not to think your a professional or anything to early, you stop learning that way.

Think about it this way, if your girlfriend was rappelling on it over and over again 300ft off the ground, Would you feel comfortable?
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
If done right, the welds will be as strong as the original metal. Weld certifications test for this and you should not be able to break the part at the weld any easier than you can break the part anywhere else. What welding technique and materials are you using? What are the parts made from? Is this fusion welding or some other technique like brazing (which is not appropriate for this type of application)?

Can you post pictures of the welds before and after failing?

Dave
the kid

Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
welded shuts are low budge junk. they wear out fast and are not too strong.

take the time to do it right and use far better systems available today.
ks
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
welded shuts are probably a bad idea for anchor set ups due to the above reasons listed above for 'cold shuts' (which you were not asking about cold shuts, to be clear here). If you are using stud anchor bolts (not my preferred anchor) and the shuts are easily removable, then there may be room for using them, but your welds must be (as mentioned above) equal in strength to the metal around them. I'm not a welder and I know this much.

if you list your test methods I'm sure there are plenty of smart folks here with plenty of climbing experience.

since this is your first post here, folks may think you are trolling. if you are so be it. but more info is needed to answer your question if not.

jstan

climber
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
Weld-it:
What answer would give another who asks what you ask but who has climbed for one year and has taken no shop?

Would you feel that person was fully qualified to make decisions that potentially could cost you your life?

You are proposing something extremely serious. You need to know that.
hagerty

Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
And before you flame me, I know what I'm doing (3rd year of shop)...
Judging by your question, apparently not.
...and have been climbing a long time (2 years +)...
No, you haven't. Not by a long shot.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
"What is an acceptable failure rate for welded shuts as lower off anchors? I've been welding some up in shop class and have since found out that the welds are not really that strong (at least the way I'm doing it LOL) Since there are always two at an anchor how big of a problem is this?

And before you flame me, I know what I'm doing (3rd year of shop) and have been climbing a long time (2 years +) so save your hate for someone else."[/]

No hate here my friend but if you have to ask questions like this on a public forum YOU SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUCTING ANCHORS THAT WILL BE PLACED ANYWHERE.

Get your Welding license (Los Angeles City has the most stringent qualifications and is acknowledged worldwide) and your American Welding Society (AWS) Certification and you will know the answers to your questions.
apogee

climber
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
And before you flame me, I know what I'm doing (3rd year of shop)...

...and have been climbing a long time (2 years +)...


Is this a troll?
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
apogee - bingo I think you should be nominated for todays taco Spot A Troll award!!

kev
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
welded shuts are non-accepted.

use climbing hardware not home depot hardware!
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 24, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
@DCCC
The real issue with coldshuts is that the repeated use of lowering and toproping wears grooves into the relatively soft metal.

And non-intuitively, that can make them stronger (although the sharp edges can damage a rope):

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb/qclab/qc-lab-worn-anchors

locker

Social climber
Oryay Ommamay
Feb 24, 2010 - 03:01pm PT

HAS to be a "TROLL"...


"and have been climbing a long time (2 years +)"...






BINGO!!! Edit:



"if you have to ask questions like this on a public forum YOU SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUCTING ANCHORS THAT WILL BE PLACED ANYWHERE."...

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