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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Studly,
I use my brain as the ultimate back up. (get it?)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Quick Mark, the coffee's burning...... (Studly sneaks out of room)
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Studly, when I'm done with you this summer, you'll be strong, fast and safe. How's that?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Sounds great! Ive been lifting weights regularly, shoveling snow, hitting the rock gym until total failure, and even adjusted my diet. and the Mark Hudon school of pain has not even opened its doors for the season, so I better be ready.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I workout Monday, Wednesday and Friday after about 4. Come on over.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Studly,
Is that Dana's arch?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Yes, Dana's Arch On upper Town Wall at Index.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Think they'd trade for a bamboo shaft zero gully north wall hammer (50 cm)?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Need to get Kate on this thread. She uses the BD ascenders and tells me she likes them.
I haven't tried them much at all, but I have rejected them completely because I don't like the way the handle pivots as you weight them. I'll stick with Petzls, thanks.
If Coz says they're junk, that's good enough for me. Others should be aware of this.
Safety bump.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 10, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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LOL, dammit, I had forgot all about this thread. I had recently bought a couple of like new (but used) Nforce ascenders. Curious to me at the time they were very inexpensive. (there was a reason for that, which we will get too). Being a gear whore, I got trolled in.
Played hookey from work yesterday and the most annoying thing happened (repeatedly) when I got them out for the very first time. The F**ouiking top ascender would often slip an inch or 3 before randomly engaging while jugging. Total pisser. The second lower one never did. I tried to figure it out, and noticed that if I jugged slower and tried to "set" the top one it seemed to not occur. That got me through the day and so I decided I'd see if anyone else had this issue and what they had done about it. Looked this issue up on google and see I'd posted on this very thread on Supertopo back in 2009 about the Black Diamonds Nforce ascenders slipping. Forgot all about it. LOL! Guess someone needs to pay better attention.
Never had anything like this happen. Have jugged on CMI's, Clogs, HB's, Petzls, Yates and both the grey and yellow Jumars.
Wish I hadn't painted my colors on them as I'm thinking they're going onto Ebay. Cheap:-) Too bad, I otherwise like the release and the feel better than the Petzl. The lower one slides great after you've tied in short and the rope weight isn't there.
Pretty topical given this thread on crampon failures: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1767636&tn=0&mr=0
Not preplanned on my part. Some BD gear kicks ass. (in a good way duh:-) Not these.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Apr 10, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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I used Clogs for many years, really liked 'em, until the biner holes began to get worn, oversized with mushroomed edges. Mid-1990s dropped one 400 feet, bought a pair of the CMI ultra-ascenders. They rock. Indestructible.
Seventeen years later they squeak badly and are somewhat worn where they scrape on the rock, so decided (just a couple weeks ago) it was time to retire them. Hard to find them these days, they now seem marketed more at tree trimmers and suchlike (Amazon seem to have them).
Had choice N-Force or Petzl. To me, the N-Force just looked too complicated; more parts to potentially fail, loosen up or wear out, so decided on the Petzls. They sure are lighter then the CMIs, though they will doubtless wear out faster.
This thread makes me feel I made the right choice. If the N-Forces slip that would really suck. Effective, non-slipping jumars have been around the US since 1962. Epic design fail to invent a new design that is both more complex AND less effective.
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SofCookay
climber
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Apr 10, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
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Yep, they slip on me as well and it's not only annoying, it's kinda scary. I think they might be going on Ebay soon...
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
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Apr 10, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
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I've had to use the BD ones a few times and every time after using them I swore never to use them again. I've jugged nearly as much as anyone I know, minus Gerberding, CMac, Nanook and a couple other El Cap freaks but I'm right up there with them. Suffice to say I know how to use ascenders. But for some reason I couldn't figure out how to jug at full speed without them slipping a few inches almost every time.
The last time I used them was to jug a stuck rope while descending Fitzroy down in Patagonia. I literally stopped using the top one and replaced it with a prussic mid way up the pitch after I became so frustrated with the slipping. If they were mine I wouldn't of hesitated to throw them off the mountain right then and there.
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Andrew F
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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Apr 10, 2012 - 03:35pm PT
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Same thing happens on mine. You have to consciously engage them each stroke and pull straight down or they can slip a few inches. The pivots on one of mine was bad (felt like it had sand in it and was sticky, even though it was new) and the cam would not close itself under spring force. I sent it back to BD and they replaced it, but both pairs with functional pivots still slip. Scary.
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wallyvirginia
Trad climber
Huttersund, Jämtland, Sweden,
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Apr 10, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
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I've jugged a bit on both petzl ascension and bd nforce ascenders. Not as much on big walls (some though) as on free hanging static ropes doing rope access construction work, but still. Mostly using only one handled ascender and a chest ascender.
As I was self employed I bought my own gear. I had learned jugging with petzl ascenders but started out buying the nforce ascenders (in 2008) as I thought they looked cool and I liked that you could "spin" a locking biner in the hole at the bottom.. My problems with the bd ascenders, however, didn't concern slipping.
When I was jugging with the handled ascender/chest ascender setup the angle on the nforce ascender somehow made the rope run over my little and ring finger. At first it was just annoying but after a few days of jugging lines it started to hurt, even though I was wearing gloves. I tried to hold it differently but couldn't make it not hurt my fingers. Then I accidentally dropped one of the them, it fell maybe 15 feet and landed on a concrete floor. After that it wouldn't close automatically. I couldn't see any damage, the spring just didn't function anymore. And I couldn't open it or fix it. It would still clamp if I hung on it but it wouldn't stay up as the spring was not functioning. Of course you shouldn't drop gear so I couldn't return it to BD but I guess since the whole handle is connected to the spring it's just a more sensitive design and therefore it's more likely do brake when it gets a little banged up. =(
I bought the petzl ascenders instead and have hade no problems what so ever after that, just love them.
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apogee
climber
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Apr 10, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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"Yep, they slip on me as well and it's not only annoying, it's kinda scary."
I had a pair of Clogs when I did the Shield- the return spring broke early on- you had to hold your thumb against the cam to get it to bite. It slipped over and over...each time almost made me puke...
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 11, 2012 - 05:04am PT
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The nforce jobs are pretty much crap. Retake on an old Kong design that was crap like 30 years ago. Really a shame to see what was once the world leader in climbing gear go to pot. Condolences to YC.
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SofCookay
climber
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Apr 11, 2012 - 09:50am PT
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I sent an email to customer service at BD to inquire about the slippage - here's what they had to say:
"The issue you are having stems from pulling out on the ascender when you are moving it up, and is something I got very used to doing from other brands (or may seem natural even if you haven’t used anything else). If you pull out on the handle as you move it up, this will not allow the cam to engage until the weight of your body on the ascender over-rides the outward force of pulling on the ascender. Pushing up the ascender and being conscious with technique should alleviate the slippage you are experiencing. There is no design flaw, just a difference in the 4-bar linkage design over a traditional ascender, but the advantages in our mind of the 4-bar really out-weighs the extra bit of time needed to help your technique adapt. I find I do the same thing you are mentioning when I am moving super fast as well, and my technique suffers."
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