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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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The BD's are just knock-offs of the Kong ascenders, supposedly improved but not really. I used to have the latter and replaced them with Petzl for all the reasons stated here. But now I've switched to CAMP ascenders and like them even better. For icy or muddy ropes, the Ushba handle design was by far the best (no cams, just bends the rope) but nobody makes them now and there was room for improvement in getting on/off the rope quickly.
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WBraun
climber
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Cozgrove (X BD Tech Rep) was at my place and gave me and my girl a Demo of how easy it was to make the rope pop completely out of the new device.
Whoa, is this true?
That would be really scary and dangerous, and not only a life threatening safety factor?
Can anyone confirm this?
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Ben Emery
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Perhaps if coz could elaborate on what conditions he's seen them come off the rope under, or, better yet, post a video somewhere? That way those of us that use them could set up some home tests to decide how big an issue we think it is...
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Medusa... I don't suppose there is a video of this?
Cozgrove (X BD Tech Rep) was at my place and gave me and my girl a Demo of how easy it was to make the rope pop completely out of the new device.
Its junk and should be removed from the public in short order..
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Blinky
Trad climber
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Yellow Jumars are the coolest, Petzls are good for using everyday.
...and for sure, if you have a local gear shop, spend your money with them.
Personally I have no use for Kong, it's the KFC of safety gear.
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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still amazed the Clog never became the "benchmark" ascender.
think it could have been refined a bit farther, too
with a short super-stout clip in loop (to keep the 'biner
from getting cranked on an edge) the inner plastic handle
could have been moulded to allow the sling to slip into
its forward spot, as when cleaning horizontal.
felt the Clog frame, overall, just a touch too big overall
others felt not.
as far as a Yos type big wall/NIAD ascender, it always
seemed to have a bunch of fans.
oh well...
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Brendan
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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I've climbed the captain a few times with the BD ascenders.
Of those thousands of feet of ascending, I have never had them pop off (even on hard traverses) but I am quite accustomed to them slipping.
The slip is generally about a half inch or so, but I have had it happen up to 4 inches. It is not the result of a sticky camming system, it is a fault in the design.
I can't exactly figure out what causes it, but i do notice that it occurs much more often when I am moving quickly. Perhaps when you are moving the ascender up and you partially weight it with your foot/body before the camming action of the handle is able to be fully settled, it slips. This is a result of the design in which the entire handle moves, which is not an issue with the petzl.
They are a little unnerving, but I am not confident that they are unsafe. By my experience with them, you DEFINITELY don't want to jug ropes less than 9 mill, or the distance that it takes for a slip to catch might be exponentially compounded, not to mention a much much higher chance of them popping. I've jugged with the BD and petzl enough to get a good feel, and the petzl ones are much more secure. Although I was really stoked on them when I first the BD's,
if I were you, I would buy the petzl ascenders.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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we should bump this for the surprising lack of input from BD. i'm sure their eyes are all over this thread, yet no response....
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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No. Where Medusa?
Prod.
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Thats a bummer, what went down with your girl?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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I've got one BD and one Petzl, and no slippage issues here. My partner dropped my right hand Petzl a while back, so I replaced it with the BD. It took a little getting used to, but no slippage issues.
However, I have previously had my Petzl's slip on me. Specifically when jugging my static line (9.5mm New England Rope KM-III static, with a pretty tight outer weave). Only the upper jug would slip, and the new BD upper jug replacement does not slip on it (slippage was rare witht eh Petzl, but I've had none thus far with the BD). Go figure.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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I had my new Petzl jumar pop off the rope. It was carelessness by me though, as I was trying to move fast jugging and cleaning a traversing pitch and I moved the jumar past the piece I was going to clean and inadvertently had the handle up when i put it on the rope. I didn't check if it was seated tight, and when I weighted the jumar, it twisted and popped off. Probably any jumar would in similar act of stupidity. I have never used the BD nForce so have not idea what they are like.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jumars still rule for wall climbing. Why mess around?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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C'mon Studly, do you want to die? I don't, and I have never had an ascender pop off a rope in miles and miles of jugging and cleaning. The ascender didn't pop off the rope, you simply didn't put it on the rope correctly. Again, Do you want to die?
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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ALL handled ascending devices can be twisted off the rope, don't think otherwise.
Please back up your equipment using biners, gri-gris, or knots.
There is nothing especially dangerous about the BD ascenders, and they have the added bonus of gripping more tightly on icy or muddy ropes if you alpine climb or spelunk.
Medusa,
BD would have to destroy your ascenders when they got them, why do you think you should be entitled to a full refund?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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yeah, that woke me up, don't want to die, waaaaaaaaa. I was trying to clean the pitch in record time, and got reckless. As donini once said, your other jumar is your backup and thank godness for that. I now carefully place my jug on the line and engage teeth. Nnever had that happen before. Here's Rick H. on the pitch.
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kent
Trad climber
SLC, Ut
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I had the jugs slip a few times when I first started using them. I think it is due to the handle design, which is designed to turn the weight placed on the ascender into a camming force onto the rope. If you are moving quickly and weight the ascender too fast it will slip slightly before fully engaging.
I haven't had them slip in ~40 pitches now.
Two features that I think are really nice:
-the large carabiner hole capable of rotating a large locker 360 degrees
- The "thumb bump" on top of the handle that releases the cam but doesn't unlock the locking mechanism. This feature makes it really easy to move the bottom jug up at the beginning of a pitch or after a back up knot, without worrying about pulling the jug off the rope.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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The best ascender ever made were clogs, wish mine had never been stolen. i have Petzl's that I just can't feel the love for. Had gray Jumar, but word was not to trust them once dropped....
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Jaybro,
Had gray Jumar, but word was not to trust them once dropped....
Is that because they are cast Alum? I have some Yellow ones that I like better than my Petzls but am a little weary because of thinking I heard something about them breaking in half? Has this ever happened? I do have my lower hole tied into the upper hole, just in case.
Prod.
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