Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 28, 2007 - 07:43pm PT
|
I have old jumars and am thinking about replacing them with new ones.
Is it worth buying a left and a right? I know the answer is YES for most of you...
However, I've seen dudes use one and a gri-gri.
What's the word on the rock? Eh?
|
|
Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 07:48pm PT
|
I tried the Jumar & Gri-gri combo....didn't like it.
2 ascenders for me.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 07:50pm PT
|
Anyone tried the new BD ascenders?
Are they user friendly like Clogs?
|
|
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2007 - 07:51pm PT
|
I just got one...pretty sweet in the house...need to put it on nylon...thinkin' about getting the rusty left one too.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 07:53pm PT
|
Dank: "However, I've seen dudes use one and a gri-gri."
Yeah and I've also seen guys drive with one compact spare tire on one wheel.
|
|
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2007 - 07:54pm PT
|
Thanks Werner!
|
|
rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 08:02pm PT
|
I've only used system a couple of times but mostly I sort of liked it, at least for cleaning (where you are stopping all the time anyway). Maybe not so good for jugging fixed lines. For one thing you have one attachment to rope that won't come off. You can also lower out from fixed piece on traverse easily.
But if pitch is traversing you'll need either left or right jug to go on top, depending on which way you are traversing.
Probably need to buy both hands either way.
|
|
clustiere
Trad climber
Durango, CO
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 08:08pm PT
|
I saw a guy waste a lot of time on the south face of the colum using that system, but then again I was surrounded by those who were sorting it all out. Two ascenders baby, easy transition from steep to vertical and slabby as well add to the arguement for two.
|
|
yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
|
One ascender and one grigri will help your team perfect that four hour per pitch average.
(Hi s.o.!)
|
|
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2007 - 08:36pm PT
|
Sounds like 2:1
gotta have both
What is your take on using the Gri-Gri instead of tying a back up knot in case your jugs fall off? God forbid!
Not sure about sawing any piece of the Gri-Gri off in order to get it to feed through the rope quicker?
Tying knots is annoying, but a necessary evil.
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 09:16pm PT
|
Hmm. I'm surprised the reaction is so negative. I really like the one ascender/one grigri method for cleaning, especially if it's overhung or traversing. Tho I'm certainly not the most experienced aider/aid cleaner in the world...
|
|
s. o.
Trad climber
academia
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 09:21pm PT
|
I tried the gri-gri/ 1 ascender for a while. It blows hard. Much slower that the other way, but a good way to follow up yo! on a single pitch seven hour lead.
|
|
ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 09:30pm PT
|
this year i'm going to climb el cap with 2 ascenders ..
.. then i'll come back and post about which one i liked best..
.. ask ammon he'll tell you about how i failed on the first pitch of south seas with 1 grigri + 1 ascender.
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 28, 2007 - 09:44pm PT
|
Those new nForce BD ascenders....
jugged a couple pitches with them in Yosemite last weekend.
Friend bought them,.. I have used Petzl's for years.
He complained that they were slipping, so I grabbed them and almost immediately, my top one slipped too. I figured out how to make the top hand slip every time and it had to do with the linkages that BD uses. You can apply enough forward force on the thing to keep the linkages from engaging the rope, until you start to fall, pull back and then down on the handle. It kinda sucks, not sure if it is worth it for the extra 30% holding power you get once it does engage.
Anyone else find this?
|
|
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:29am PT
|
What was the diameter of your rope?
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2007 - 12:39am PT
|
grigri system blows. 2 jugs, no shenanigans and just get going..... I like real Jumars better than Petzl, Clog, CMI, Gibbs, Ushba, or anything else.
|
|
dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:40am PT
|
Russ...what if they're circa 1970's jumars...do you still prefer them over other brands?
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2007 - 01:15am PT
|
yes... I actually like the gray ones best. The ones I use (yellow) were found at the base of the Tangerine Trip. MIcro fractures be damned! When your number is up, it's up....
"Don't be late"
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2007 - 01:20am PT
|
Huh? Someone say old grey jumars?
Yep, they were the best. Fast and efficient.
Not like todays modern garbage with all those stupid idiotic inefficient safety features that actually can kill ya if you don't pay attention.
Who designs this sh'it now a days?
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2007 - 01:30am PT
|
I thought everyone was clear about this! Evidently not. Sheesh.
Grigri + one [or two] jug[s] is a great way to clean a steep or traversing aid pitch for a few reasons:
 Easy to release the Grigri under tension by opening the lever so you don't have to fight a weighted jug
You get a nice running backup with the Grigri [which doesn't eliminate the need to tie regular backup knots!]
On those moments where you might find yourself free hanging in space, you can put the free end of the rope through a crab on the jug to create a 2:1 zed-pulley Body Hoist system - slow but handy sometimes
I thought everyone was fully familiar with the fact that using a Grigri as an ascender on a fixed rope was slower than molasses in January?! Only a Big Wall Theorist would suggest such a thing! Obviously it's a pain in the ass and hugely inefficient to be pulling rope through a Grigri. Duh.
If you are ascending a fixed rope where the rope touches the rock, meaning it's less than vertical, the Yosemite System is best and fastest. Yosemite System is also OK if you are hanging free in space, have massive biceps, and don't mind struggling.
If you are a weiner-armed off-the-couch wanker like me, when you find yourself free hanging in space you'll convert to a Frog system, which any caver will tell you is the Better Way to ascend a free-hanging rope. Cavers have nothing better to do than perfect their jugging and rappeling systems, and you can learn far more about these systems from cavers than from climbers - guaranteed.
If you are cleaning a fairly straight-running aid pitch, like many free climbing cracks that BWT's should be practising on, then you'll be able to clean it quicker using a Yosemite or Frog system. But when the terrain turns overhanging, and you're trying to follow that fixed lead rope which is twisting and winding its way through traverses and roofs and stuff, and every damn piece is loaded at some ridiculously awkward angle with all your weight on it so you end up staring it in the face wondering wtf to do, you will quickly discover why the jug[s] + Grigri method is so bitchin'.
Dr. Piton Big Wall Tip of the Day:
Put your upper jug on an adjustable daisy so that after you lift it over the piece you are about to clean, you can yard yourself up onto it with a 2:1 mechanical advantage, thus easily transferring most of your weight to the upper jug before unweighting the Grigri.
Yates buckle-style adjustables work better than Metolius D-ring style adjustables for this application because they can later be released under tension. I use my adjustable fifi because I can whip it in, and then cinch it down quickly. With practise it is easy to pop out using just the tip of your thumb as you are standing up.
When it comes to ascending and cleaning aid pitches, you need to have all the arrows in your quiver, and know when to use each. And there is only one way to learn that.
Cheers,
Dr. Piton
If you have further questions and want detailed beta about this stuff, or any other stuff, feel free to email me.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!