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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 10:58am PT
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Werner, have you ever used a thesaurus? I'm sure you can find a lot of options for "stupid"
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 30, 2013 - 11:05am PT
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Wait until some a$$hat reels out Tabun which is an order of magnitude worse and is absorbed through the skin in addition to simply breating a whiff of it.
I think you are referring to VX not Tabun. All the nerve agents can be absorbed thru the skin, but VX is the only persistent one.
Only three countries ever produced it (except for the 100 grams or so that Aum Shinrikio used for an assasination)
The US and Russia have both destroyed their stockpiles.
Saddam sold his to Syria. It all got moved pre US invasion.
If that stuff gets in the hands of the "rebel" forces it won't be long till it will be making appearances around the world.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2013 - 11:07am PT
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Saddam sold his to Syria. It all got moved pre US invasion.
lol
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 30, 2013 - 11:27am PT
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TGT-
You're correct about VX being the persistent CW agent. It's just that Tabun is such a bad actor that very little of it needs to be applied to have catastrophic consequences!
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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After listening to John Kerry --it is only a matter of time when we go in.
I hope like hell, if this is TRUE, we go in and get that SOB, but I also hope were not being duped again.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
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OK, I'll re-post this from a few days ago:
"I was hanging with my homie a couple of weeks ago. He is the #3 dude at an
embassy in the neighborhood and I don't mean Mr Roger's. He was highly
impressed with the Frenchies' effort in Mali. When I brought up Syria he
just rolled his eyes and muttered something to the effect of 'a bottomless
pit of quicksand'."
And, trust me, he has access to a whole bunch more info than all of us
combined, including Werner.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
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Wow, reading through the last few pages it's hard not to be struck by the amount of absolute nutjobbery and conspiracy Gomerism on display here - a veritable ensemble of pitchforks to get the moon out of the pond. Some of you guys are as bad as the neocons when it comes to fantasy and group delusion.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
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The irony is that if I jumped on a plane to Syria, joined a rebel group and attacked a target that the U.S. intends to strike, I could be put in Guantanamo for conspiring with Al Aqaeda and / or the Taliban.
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frank wyman
Mountain climber
montana
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
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Why is it that when someone commits a crime in plain sight of people, (Fort Hood shooter for one) He is "Aledged Shooter" for years. But the same goverment can be so positive and start a war of no return over hearsay and questionable sources? Does Israel just snap its fingers and we jump? Well its a holiday weekend and no one cares.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
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Benghazi, really? We know exactly what happened in Benghazi - the CIA got caught with their pants down, their station overrun, and the military refused to go in for fear of another 'Blackhawk Down' incident. This isn't vaguely in the same ballpark.
We, the Israelis, and the EU have all had our eyes on this in real-time and, while not able to track all the opposition movements and actions, those of the regime are fairly easy to track - particularly their missile and gas weapons movements, which have been under intense Israeli, US, and EU scrutiny to insure such weapon aren't transferred to Hezbollah. That's how several weapons convoys and warehouses have been taken out.
The administration's failing in this instance - as in the NSA / FISA case - is not making the full body of evidence public. To fail to do so against the backdrop of the NSA/Snowden fiasco and ask the public to trust those who've seen the evidence is akin to asking us to trust the FISA court. We don't. There is no doubt intelligence sources / capabilities the US would rather keep secret, but the Internet cuts both ways and we are rapidly approaching a 'post-secret' world.
I have no doubt, however, when they say they can document satellite data for a coordinated WMD rocket attack originating from regime held areas followed up with intense conventional bombardment; that they have SIGINT on regime emails related to that attack both pre- and post-attack; and that the timing of social media traffic and NGO statements all line up with those attacks. If they didn't, or any of their evidence so much as smelled bad, then folks like Ron Wyden, Susan Collins, and others like them with access to the intelligence would definitely be saying so and loudly. So again, I don't doubt the evidential basis for a strike, but do question the wisdom of one beyond the consequences of not backing-up our ill-advised 'red line' comment. The irony of that comment was it was meant to establish a threshold such that we'd never have to enter the conflict, but the Baathists have for decades shown a willingness to use chemical weapons and that underestimation makes us look all the more foolish.
A strike will no doubt target airpower, armor, SCUDs, and chemical weapons (in the highly unlikely event they haven't been 'urbanized' already) - an effort to 'defang' the regime. They may even clusterbomb any and all airstrips (which would be highly ironic).
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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Secretary of State Kerry just finished an excellent speech on this subject. I would urge all of you and anyone concerned with this to listen to it.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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rong just continues to show how rong rong is.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
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While I am for targeting ASSad I am not for entering the war or even taking out military targets unless necessary to get ASSad.
I do say it is important to listen to what our government is saying at this time. Regardless the level of trust you may or may not have in them.
Secretary of State Kerry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/31/world/middleeast/john-kerry-syria.html?_r=0
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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"Wow, reading through the last few pages it's hard not to be struck by the amount of absolute nutjobbery and conspiracy Gomerism on display here - a veritable ensemble of pitchforks to get the moon out of the pond. Some of you guys are as bad as the neocons when it comes to fantasy and group delusion."
x2 !!!!!!!!!!!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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Ron. In my mind this should have nothing to do with the civil war in Syria. It has nothing to do with supporting one side or another or some faction of it.
It simply should be about enforcing the ban on the use of WMDs. We should make that very clear.
ASSad's life should be forfeit. He should be offered the ability to surrender to an international wars crimes court or face inevitable death no matter how long it takes. Like UBL.
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
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"THE only idea that would work there is to kill 75% of them ALL."
Once you made this comment Ron I went from skimming your posts to skipping them entirely.
Over 1400 people dead in one sarin attack. 400 children.
Erik
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
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"In my mind this should nothing to do with the civil war in Syria. It has nothing to do with supporting one side or another or some faction of it.
It simply should be about enforcing the ban on the use of WMDs. We should make that very clear.
ASSad's life should be forfeit. He should be offered the ability to surrender to an international wars crimes court or face inevitable death no matter how long it takes. Like UBL."
Totally agree! Great post! Thank you.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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ASSad's life should be forfeit. He should be offered the ability to surrender to an international wars crimes court or face inevitable death no matter how long it takes. Like UBL."
Totally agree! Great post! Thank you.
OK, even assuming that a person agrees with this basic premise, WHY does it "have" to be the United States that does it??
Why us?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
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Please do some serious real research for a change ........
Werner, help us all out with "real research," at least post a link or give us something to start with. Is that too much to ask?
Otherwise I'll worry that people might think that you are just spewing.
(BTW, if you're the type to get pissed that I am "questioning" you and to remember that when you're on duty, then my name is Mike Jones.)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
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Ron, hey, it's a friggin' Sunni-on-Shiite free for all and a few hundred Paki Taliban fighters hardly constitute or characterize the make up of the opposition which is a veritable smorgasbord of locals, foreigners, and agendas at this point.
And there's no real need to get further in-depth with your innuendo vis-a-vis W & Iraq, utter misunderstanding of what the 'Arab Spring' is or came about or means, quoting the Russians, or your bigotry and xenophobia and how they shade your views in this instance (and in all things Islamic).
Overall you just seem to keep making cluelessness a high art form. And it's not so much you can't seem to separate fact from fantasy as much as even when you have a handful of facts you utterly fail to place them in any form of reality-based context and continually draw all the wrong conclusions from them.
And in the end it gets really hard not to start considering folks like you almost as dangerous and corrosive as any radical fundamentalist. Please quit reading all that Bircher crap - it's a straw sucking all common sense from your head.
P.S. maybe start by deciding if you're a fundamentalist, a radical leftist, a wingnut righty, or whether you're just going to stick with 'independent thinker'.
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