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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 29, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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Yep
Regan and Bush are making him do this...
Oh, wait...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 29, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
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They aren't making him do it, but Reagan and the Bushes set the stage for why we are at this juncture. I didn't vote for Obama in the primaries specifically because I knew he wouldn't take any hard lines, would always play the middle-ground, and do the least possible to rock-the-boat relative to real changes the country needs. It was all clear as a bell in advance if you followed Chicago politics at all.
A perfect example of that is Obamacare - a complete abortion which doesn't get the insurance industry out of basic healthcare. And in the highly polarized nation we are left with in Karl Rove's wake Obama (and the democratic elite) don't have the balls to stand up to the fusillade of criticism that would be launched by the right if he actually walked away from the NSA programs, Iraq and Afghanistan.
But make no mistake, all of this - the NSA spying, the military engagements, and the complete roving shitstorm that is now the Mideast are all products of the Reagan, Bush, and W's push for executive power to execute their respective [fantasy] agendas. Obama's all to predictable failure is his inability and unwillingness to take on conservatives and their media hounds directly and make the hard calls to shut everything down.
P.S. Ron, you are so clueless about the NDAA 2013 as to be pointless to banter about it.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 29, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
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H-
How does it feel to be entirely alone on this issue?
Yeah, go back to Reagan, and then go further back to LBJ and Vietnam--and JFK with the Bay of Pigs. Try McKinley and Cuba (1898). Of course Woodrow Wilson "Kept us out of war..." oh...I guess that was only a mistake on the teleprompter. Oops! No teleprompter then..Just Edward Mandel House (Rothschild agent) pulling the strings.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 29, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
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DrF
Sorry if we insulted your girlfriend.
Oh wait... Never mind.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
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In my gamer days we'd call what DrF is doing
Hanging on the jockstrap.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Aug 29, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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No matter what the USA does, it will be wrong, so why bother kicking the hornet's nest?
If you're going to be wrong regardless, then just stay at home with a beer and watch South Park
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
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Obama will blow some meaningless crap up with cruise missiles. Probably within the next few days.
It will kill some decent folks just trying to make it through tough times. (this includes syrian soldiers)
ASSad will continue unscathed.
Bet ya I'm right and I'll give ya 5 to 1 odds.
wanna put a 20 on it?
I'd sure be glad to lose that $100 but I doubt I will.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 29, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
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"taking a shot across the bow" in this case is not too smart. Both China and Russia walked out of the UN today in protest to US policies. This used to be called "brinksmanship" in the Cold War days. There are 3 nuclear armed interested parties on the other side: Russia, China, and Pakistan.
Overall, this is a recipe for a nuclear confrontation, and not the simple slap-down job to a petty tyrant suggested by others on this site.
In an unemotional and non-confrontational examination of the situation, there is more than the media has presented.
(1) There are some dead people, and presumed gassed by Sarin.
(2) Assumption # 1 is that Assad did it; but only dead women and children shown. If Assad wanted to send a message, there would be lots of dead soldiers, too.
(3) Another hypothesis is it's a "false flag" operation to provoke a US response; perpetrators could be (a) Israel; (b) CIA; (c) rival Islamic groups.
Best course of action: there really isn't one; no action is the best action here.
I rest my case.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
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There is only one proper target.
ASSad. He should be held resposible for the use of chemical weapons on his soil.
Regardless whether he ordered their use or even if they originated from his stores. Hell even if Israel did it. I am fine with making it clear to any dictator anywhere that WMDs possession is not in their best interest. Makes them too vulnerable to other folks getting us to kill them.
Captain of the ship.. no defense.. no excuses.
No one and nothing else should be targeted.
No other involvement in the syrian civil war should be pursued.
the climbski2 doctrine. Usage of chemical weapons on the soil of a known dictatorial possessor of chemical weapons will be grounds for the elimination of said nations leadership.
sadly i suspect others will suffer for this and the whole situation will continue to get worse and we will blacken our own eye.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
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Kuwait
Sadly America is a worse place to live by far than it was when I was a child.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
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Climb, you're falling for the nonsense.
Assad isn't an idiot. He is winning the war and had everything to lose.
There is zero reason for Assad to use crude chemical weapons on civilians. Ask yourself, how are these crude chemical weapons any more effective than conventional bombs, bullets, and fire? They're not.
"Weapons of Mass Destruction"? Please. It's all marketing. Killing is killing. These weren't nukes. They only thing they could trigger is the plans of the USSA for more conquest and more dead brown people. It's good for business and gets the sheeple's mind off of the NSA and every other crime committed by our regime. We've been itching to bomb more brown people now for months.
We financed these "rebels". We got them weapons, we trained them, we helped them. Our government is as guilty as the men who actually pulled the trigger on these women and children this time.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:22am PT
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no not falling for any nonsense.. I'm just good with any excuse to assassinate a dictator.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:25am PT
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climbski2 -- "i'm just good with any excuse to assassinate a dictator"
We should just start with you since you're dictating so much ......
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:32am PT
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IM GUNNA DIE!
Ok If Werner ASSasinates me.. just let him go..
I'll be fine and he has important work to do that would be hampered in prison.
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:54am PT
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They'd like to sink some of our navy, give us a bloody nose without getting
pounded in return.
A trick they'd like to figure out. But it always leaves fingerprints:
radar data showing where the missiles came from.
Ideally they'd like to launch from anywhere but their own territory for plausible deniability.
Say a fishing boat that's never been to Syria and big enough to hide a cruise missile launch system inside that gets burned and sunk afterwards obscuring evidence. But we watch for that also.
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Aug 30, 2013 - 03:10am PT
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Some comments on CIWS
Ah yes, of course!! also called the "abandon ship" weapon.
If you are down to CIWS...you are already in deep, deep, doodo.
They are cool gadgets though...
Supersonic cruise missile is way a potent threat to a cruiser/destroyer type.
Phalanx are generally good for Sub-Sonic-Missiles but when your talking
about stuff like ballistic missiles or hypersonic cruise missiles good
luck. There was something the naval institute came out with I was reading
that said that carriers are pretty much scrap metal when it comes to
defending against ballistic missiles. Since they have zero defense
against them. Why they don't sail alone.
Now an AB missile destroyer may have a good chance.
Ok let me calculate & show you why its not so good
Phalanx effective range=1.5km=1500m
Yakhont speed= 8oom/s
Max ideal engagement time= ~2s
Max rate of fire Phalanx= 4500roundsperminute=75roundspersecond
Max ideal bullets towards approaching threat=~150
so I think you are shooting less than 150 bullets upon an object the size of your desktop screen ain't so good at all, that may still hit the ship even after it blows up. Sort of like a supersonic fireball wrapped around a shotgun blast of missile parts.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 30, 2013 - 09:50am PT
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"The Media" is once again complicit in beating the war drums. It's called playing the "atrocity card." We all have a gut response to seeing dead children and women; not so much seeing dead militiamen. This is a very clever psy-op being conducted by someone, but we don't know just whom to blame, do we? In a rush to judgment, all the fingers are pointed at ASSad; we need to follow the pointing back on a reciprocal course to see who is actually calling the shots.
That said, if we simply walk away from this clusterfuk in the ME, we save lots of $$$ and potentially more American lives.
Sarin, by the way, isn't that great as a CW agent since it's non-persistent. Wait until some a$$hat reels out Tabun which is an order of magnitude worse and is absorbed through the skin in addition to simply breating a whiff of it.
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Cragar
Trad climber
MSLA - MT
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Aug 30, 2013 - 10:34am PT
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I agree with you Ron, except..
NO ONE is the "world police".. That is a fallacy perpetrated by our govt to excuse the waste of lives and money. We have NOT changed or made ANYWHERE better since 1945.
The wasted money is that of the taxpayers while the elite line their lovely laced lined pockets whilst laughing lock-jawed all the way to the bank, vineyard, lake..etc.etc. War is a profit machine. Atrocious at best.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 10:50am PT
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They are not playing "world police".
It's used as an excuse to further the original agenda.
5 countries in 5 years.
Take over the mideast and democratize it and get control of the resources to feed the monster modern technological machine.
Stupid modern society has created the machine monster and it needs to eat.
Modern scientists and politicians are just plain stupid ultimately.
Everything they touch ultimately turns to sh!t.
They are just beginning to realize it because nature is retaliating heavily.
They know we can't sustain and keep feeding this present stupid monster machine indefinably.
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