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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:04am PT
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True Bruce - just a liitle love peck to remember us by.
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:13am PT
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You don't seem to fight so hard for New Orleans these days, eh ..
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:37am PT
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Winnie was an alcoholic war monger who wanted to attack Germany through "the soft underbelly" of the Balkans. If it had been up to him, there never would have been a Normandy Landing and the Red Army would have driven their T-34s all the way to Paris. What about when he sat down with Uncle Joe Stalin and carved up Poland and, in the process, sold out the London Committee of the Polish government in exile? I thought that's why Britain declared war on Germany in 1939: to save Poland. Winnie made a speech about the Iron Curtain but never mentioned what a big part he played in raising it up. Churchill was an imperialist dinosaur who wanted to hang on to India and Singapore until FDR told him to shut his big mouth and get used to being Number 2.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:53am PT
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wtf bruce?? who you been readin'....alfred e. nueman???
just in case you missed it, FDR was pretty much one step away from the grave at yalta and didn't tell anyone, much less churchill, to "get used to being #2." not his style, even when he was in the game.
churchill cut the best deals he could at yalta. russia basically won the war for us. if hitler hadn't been stupid enought to invade russia, he could have consolidated southern europe and normandy would never have happened.
what's your point?
btw...if the "war monger" got his way, maybe 20 million lives could have been saved. yeah, i guess you're right, he was a drug-addled f*#k-up. good thing you were there to bail western civilization out.....
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Sticky
climber
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Apr 12, 2006 - 04:09am PT
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Not to put too fine a point on it ladies, but attempting to justify your attitude towards someone's first ascent based on who won which battle in 1812 and whether one country whipped another in World War (take your pick) ain't the best way to justify an argument. Doesn't matter what country someone comes from - no reason to judge them, and certainly no reason to judge their climbing efforts.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now.
Sticky
ps As for Churchill - he's very dead, and never said a bad word about you. Let him be.
pps cool send. chapeau!
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Sticky
climber
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Apr 12, 2006 - 04:09am PT
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Not to put too fine a point on it ladies, but attempting to justify your attitude towards someone's first ascent based on who won which battle in 1812 and whether one country whipped another in World War (take your pick) ain't the best way to justify an argument. Doesn't matter what country someone comes from - no reason to judge them, and certainly no reason to judge their climbing efforts.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now.
Sticky
ps As for Churchill - he's very dead, and never said a bad word about you. Let him be.
pps cool send. chapeau!
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Apr 12, 2006 - 10:27am PT
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So...it's the Yanks vs the Brits...too funny!
I must say, although I'm a Yank, I've always really appreciated the Brit sense of humor.
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8A
Sport climber
England
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:23pm PT
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Hello everyone.
I am slightly disappointed with the reaction to Dave's superhuman effort, having done that hardest piece of climbing ever to have been done on gear.
Dave Macleod is to me, as he is to you, a foreigner. I congratulate him on his effort, so should you.
Why get political? Why make yourselves look like you are up your own backsides? Why not congratulate?
Also. You say that the best climbing is in the States. Why does you best climber live in Switzerland?
8A
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:25pm PT
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8a (hvs max) writes: Why does you best climber live in Switzerland?
I don't. Someone has lied to you.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
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Still doesn't say how many times Dave TRed the line over those 2 years.
"Winnie the Pooh"
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8A
Sport climber
England
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:28pm PT
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Probably hundreds. Why would he keep count?
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8A
Sport climber
England
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:32pm PT
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In reply to Russ Walling:
I don't climb trad.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:34pm PT
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I say congratulations to Dave as well! I wouldn't call the ascent traditional but I also think headpointing is cool as well - got no problems with it.
Grit ethics aren't trad in a strict sense but I still think they're way cool and I have utmost respect for them. It's an artform that I appreciate as well as participate in myself. I still wouldn't "label" it as "trad" however.
Can't wait to go back to England and try some more Grit routes! peace, jb
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8A
Sport climber
England
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Apr 12, 2006 - 02:38pm PT
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In reply to Bachar:
Fair enough, personally I would call it trad, although strictly speaking it is defined as a trad-headpoint.
If the fall is gnarly enough to snap RP wire then I think it deserves more appreciation and less bitching (you aside as a non bitcher).
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Apr 12, 2006 - 03:06pm PT
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8A - "Trad headpoint". I agree with that as well. Either way the route looks sick! Just think, someday our kids will be on-sighting this stuff!
Hope to climb with you guys in the UK sometime soon and drink some more of the best beer in the world! cheers, jb
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Tahoe
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Apr 12, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
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A few thoughts for this thread:
1) Dudes (and dudettes): chill. It's just climbing.
2) Congrats! A proud send.
3) There are different levels of style. The onsite, ground-up is definitely the purest and most respectable. But working a route that's above your level, improving, and then finally sending is also super respectable. Hang dogging and bolting, etc., is less respectable (albeit understandable.) It's okay, no matter what style you choose, provided that you don't permenantly damage the rock AND that you're honest about it.
4) What relevance does old wars between US and Britain have to do with anything? Aren't we allies, now, anyway? So who gives a fvck!?!
(Although I can certainly see how the Brits would be a bit touchy on the subject. "Gave back our country," indeed! That's because they realized they wouldn't be able to govern it - not that we've done an awesome job.) But that still has nothing to do with climbing!!!
5) Sport climbing is neither. :-)
6) Now, everyone, STFU and go climbing!
AK
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8A
Sport climber
England
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Apr 12, 2006 - 03:22pm PT
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Tahoe climber:
Go climbing? I have just got back. You're forgetting its a quarter past eight here in England!
Bachar:
No need to go too over the top ;-)
But seriously, good the bitching has finally stopped. You guys arn't as bad as the UKC lot make out.
I think they have disowned Mick Ryan.
8A
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 12, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
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Young,Smythe,Brown ect.... spinning in ther graves!!!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Apr 12, 2006 - 05:26pm PT
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ok bachar, you've gone way, way too far now.
EVERYBODY know the best beer in the world is brewed in belgium and right here in the USA.
six packs at 60 paces, mate.
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