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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 16, 2006 - 04:18am PT
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Hah!
Now I see why my phone rings! Sound the alarms; it looks like Bryan has run out of beer.
Tell you what sport, why don't you just post up your FA list and we can do a side by side?
No?
Well how about a marksmanship contest?
Oh yeah, not that either.
Well the temps have finally dropped and its time to go climbing (after some shut eye).
I suppose those who are halfway through their lives with nothing to show for it can sit around throwing stones, resentful that others are having a lark.
I know who I'M happy being.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Chicago, IL
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Sep 16, 2006 - 09:52am PT
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"won't it be great when we are in 8th grade next year!"
jesus guys grow up. the fella tries to russle your feathers and you fall for it hook line and sinker.
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HalHammer
Trad climber
CA
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Sep 16, 2006 - 12:17pm PT
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"Pretty damn weak Ammon.
If a route goes clean you should just go ahead and take and use pins?
Yes you should also take a bolt kit on tangerine trip so that you can toss in some bolts if it gets hard. Is that what you are saying Ammon?
Perhaps the real current message we are right now sending to beginner and future aid climbers is, don't worry about trashing the F*uck out of any route you do, bash pins and don't even consider conserving the resource, and if that doesn't work out then someone will rescue you anyway."
Weak,,,,I think Ron's reply has got to be the weakest post ever posted on supertopo....More pathetic than any of that lame wanker bull sh#t posted by Rajmit and Dr. Kodofag. He didn't say anything remotely close to the bull sh#t suggested. Go slander Go slander! Pathetic radicals that are so predisposed to their opinions do more harm than help. Take the lameness away please!
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Sep 16, 2006 - 12:29pm PT
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I say that being so unprepared for a climb that you can't even retreat with a big wall rack is pretty damn low dignity. That guy is not putting others at risk for his foolish endeavour. Reminds me of the time a 250+ pound woman went off the diving board at a pool I worked at. She couldn't swim, but "wanted to know what it was like." Idiot.... If that really just can't get himself down (no other issues), and tried to SOLO the wall, he's an idiot.
Edit... Haha, I responded to the first page I think, forgetting there are multiple pages. I, also, am an idiot... :)
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BPorter
Big Wall climber
Quartz Hill, Ca
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Sep 16, 2006 - 12:47pm PT
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Hey Boys,
Up here on the 9th pitch of Zodiac with my wireless laptop. I've run out of water, and dropped my 70 m static rope. I've got a shiteload of pins, a chisel and a bolt kit, but I think I'm screwed. If somebody could send me Piton Ron's email address, I'm sure he could talk me down.....or up! Don't really want to call for a rescue.
Cheers
Cracko
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 16, 2006 - 01:07pm PT
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LOL!!!!
Then there's "performance art" like peeing in a glass and drinking it. Hey, you don't suppose this could be a strategy against dehydration?
Fear not Cracko. We are assembling a cracko research team under the motto;
"Master beta for a ,uh, er....." never mind.
Time to go climbing. Cheers folks.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Chicago, IL
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Sep 16, 2006 - 05:52pm PT
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this thread has made an impact on me.
i was out walking the dog was thinking i would LOVE some good ol briskit for dinner, something i can only get by making myself since moving to this godforsaken place.
i laughed to myself becosue my next thought was "maybe i could eat dinner at steves house of smoke?"
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 18, 2006 - 06:48pm PT
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sheeesh,
go away for the weekend and look what happens.
lol
dr kodofag?
performing art?
could it be that ammon and steve were together in the house and the cards burnt up in smoke?
lol
btw, unless it is a trade route there is a bolt kit in the haulbag.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 18, 2006 - 09:56pm PT
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Sounds like Rick Piggot (moved to Reno/Tahoe area)
mimi wrote:
His big paws milking the rounded edge with perfect technique. I yelled over to my partner, Mike Davis (Spike) and said you gotta check this out! It was fun to watch. I'm blanking on the guy's name but he's a SOCAL climber; real tall and skinny. Pickett I think"
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 18, 2006 - 10:28pm PT
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Yeah, that's his name. He climbed the flake, downclimbed it and climbed and downclimbed it again. I'm not sure why he bothered trailing a rope. I wish I'd had the camera.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Sep 18, 2006 - 11:19pm PT
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Whoaaaa, I must be missing something HUGE here. These posts were fun, then got a bit out of hand, was not making me feel particularly good about anything so I've just been lurking. I truly do enjoy hearing everyone's perspectives on all of this, but like I said I just don't get it. If a route was put up on pins/bolts/whatever that used a hammer, and then gets done and altered enough times that the rock now allows for someone to manage to do the non-fixed moves clean, that means that forever more every climber that ever does the route has to ignore how the first ascent party did the route and also do it clean??? I would never argue that using pins at this point is the very best style that the route could be done, but is this in any way realistic? So as soon as someone is as talented and/or brave to manage to pull off a route's non-fixed moves clean, then noone else can climb it unless they have the same talent/risk tolerance? And what happens when things change? (rock breaks or changes, fixed piece pulls, etc.). It is just all so contrived, it's not like we're talking about some pristine crack that has never been hammered here. So what if a crack that has seen much prior hammering has a bit more, just because since the first ascent someone has managed to climb it without hammering? I climbed the Shield for my 40th birthday, nearly ten years ago. It had been climbed "clean" prior to my ascent. I have to put the word "clean" in parenthasis, since the "clean" ascent did use many fixed (non-clean) placements. Did I also do a "clean" ascent? NO. I proudly used whatever I felt necessary, including pitons. As had about a zillion parties before me, and about a zillion thereafter. Does the knowledge that there are some parties that have manaqed to climb the route "clean" detract from my ascent? Not the slightest bit in my mind. Obviously there are those out there that disagree, so be it. Sorry, but the climb ruled, we had a gas, one of the finest experiences of my life. I toast all who have had this fine experience!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 19, 2006 - 12:23am PT
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Well, OK, Hummer.
I know there must be lots of residual smoke in that gym clouding your thinking but consider the long term impact of repeated hammering that has proven to be unnecessary. Saying that because a hammer was originally required you get to screw things up for everyone here on is a bit like handing a bill to future climbers that was vastly more than promised...(cough, cough)
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Sep 19, 2006 - 12:54am PT
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Hey, Piton Ron:
I can see your point of view, I guess I sort of expected a response like that. I can just see both sides of this story. Obviously there are climbers that are way into climbing without pins, and if a route reaches a point where that is possible that's what they want to do. I'm climbing Lurking Fear soon, and I do not plan on using a hammer, even though hammers have definitely been used in the past. But I also have no issue whatsoever with someone using pins on routes like the Shield, or even Lurking Fear, since these routes have already been altered in the past to the point where they can now be climbed clean. And the more they get climbed, the more possible clean climbing is for the mass of climbers, and the less pins will get used anyway. I personally don't think in the grand scheme of things it is going to make much difference to the rock in the long run. AND at this point it's all contrived anyway. That's my opinion, and I also respect yours.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 19, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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I only wish that you were always right about more hammering enhancing the "clean climbability" but placements DO get blown out.
Sorry Hummer but I get the feeling that you are unwilling to admit that you are being selfish.
Again its the "taint" of having been hammered that is held up as a smokescreen because people don't want to admit that they just wanna do what they just wanna do regardless of result.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Sep 19, 2006 - 01:24am PT
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I am going to try to fed ex a six pack of beer to climbers on Dolt Tower?
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 19, 2006 - 01:24am PT
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Humjob, what would your patients say if you left their teeth full of holes? It would be Yugochine for you.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Sep 19, 2006 - 01:53am PT
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Piton Ron:
I'm missing your accusation of selfishness, just wording my opinion. Personally, I prefer clean climbing. But I'm not about to do any crazy clean moves that strike me as dangerous on any route where the majority of climbers feel as I do and still use pins. If I'm reading you correctly, would it not be selfish to demand that everyone clean climb every route no matter how dicey, just because that is what you happen to be into? And that prior hammering thang does indeed strike me as a pretty big taint...
Mimi:
I would never argue that leaving my patients with holes in their teeth would be terribly wrong. But what is your point/analogy regarding climbing? Went right over my head, must be late...
Ahhhh, maybe you meant if there are holes there, then fill them...with pitons! Problem is, I don't think my patients would appreciate pitons in their teeth. I suppose I could ask, but I'm thinking they would prefer something more esthetic and better fitting.
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 19, 2006 - 02:00am PT
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No, it sounds like it went in one ear and out the other, with minimal resistance or damage.
The analogy is this: do you or don't you want to contribute to the big ugly? There are tons of routes out there that you don't have to hammer on anymore. Why can't you pick one of those until you're ready for the harder ones? No big mystery. With all the info. and new gear out there, not trying is neither noble nor sporting.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 19, 2006 - 08:04am PT
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It would be selfish if I just wanted it preserved for ME, but I want it preserved for everyone that could enjoy it, but you don't seem to care about them..
If you don't think it would be safe enough without a hammer back off.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Sep 19, 2006 - 11:42pm PT
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Mimi and Piton Ron:
I should probably let this rest (hey, we just might agree on that!), but this is so darn fun! Mimi, I'm still missing your analogy, but perhaps YOU missed my post a few earlier where I mentioned climbing Lurking Fear soon without a hammer. And now you are shredding me for not picking a route that I don't have to hammer on? Uh, I did. My point is, if someone else wants to hammer on Lurking Fear, I personally have zero problem with this. Sounds like it will actually be necessay someday when a head blows. I know that we will never agree on this; we will simply have to agree that we do not agree. That's cool. You both remind me of some of the dentists on Dentaltown. These dentists see everything as black and white, if you don't do it the way do then you are WRONG! The reality is, there are many ways to practice dentistry, just as there are many ways to rock climb. Piton Ron, you talk about preserving climbs that have already been hammered? As I've said previously, I can see your point on a virgin climb that has never seen a hammer. But routes that have already seen mass hammering, I still don't see that a bit more matters much. And is it more selfish to hammer on a route that most other climbers hammer on (at the annoyance of climbers like you), or to demand that the majority of climbers never use a hammer so that you will be happy (at the annoyance of the majority)? I think any and all ascents of El Cap are noble and sporting. Some more than others, sure, but all none the less. But no worries, I respect your view on this, again we can agree that we disagree. The beauty is, what you, Mimi, and I think really does not matter. Climbers will ignore us and do whatever they want on these routes anyway. Heh.
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