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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 28, 2009 - 10:23am PT
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This discussion started on another thread. It seems that most people say Sacherer Cracker while I always thought Sacherer himself called it the Sacherer Crackerer. Meanwhile, some people are conflating Bachar and Sachar.
I checked the 1974 Roper (red) guidebook but it wasn't listed there since it was probably done about the time the guide went to press. Can someone look it up in the next edition of Roper's guidebook and see what that says?
And can anyone around at the time remember who named it and how it was pronounced?
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Oct 28, 2009 - 10:46am PT
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in the 70's and 80's always heard it pronounced just straight-up
SacherCracker.
probably part the conflation you mention, and I suspect
partly just a linguistic expedient of common speech at work as well.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2009 - 10:54am PT
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Most Sacherers in the U.S. have dropped the double er as it is redundant and hard to pronounce.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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Jan
The first time it appears is in the earliest Meyers guide (the loose ring binder green one), and is Sacherer Cracker
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:27am PT
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Every since I first climbed it in 1981 or so, everyone has said "Sacherer Cracker" which is pronounced like Sack-her Crack-her
So you might as well speck it "Sacherer Crackerer" if it's pronounced the same.
You could say it rhymes nice like "Bacher Cracker" but, the Bachar family will tell you that the correct pronunciation of Bachar is not "Back-her" but something that more "Ba-khar"
That's the way languages rolls, keeps changing and getting distorted
Peace
Karl
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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Jan- Roper's green guide describes the route as a variation of the Center Route on the Slack but gives no name. I have always wondered if the name was bestowed upon it by others who cracked or whether it gave Frank a rough time. I love the route and have done it dozens of times. Could be my favorite 5.10a now that I think about it!
Roper would be the person to nail this one down. I would be happy to provide you with contact information.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2009 - 01:10pm PT
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Steve-
I have Roper's email so I'll go ahead and ask him.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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Just heard from Roper and he's not sure either.
Says I should contact George Meyers.
Does anybody know how to email him?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 29, 2009 - 11:29am PT
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The SC was my first Yosemite 5.10. I did it with TM Herbert and I recall having a desperate time getting my clunky Robbins Blue Boots in the beginning narrow section.
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scuffy b
climber
Whuttiz that Monstrosicos Inferno?
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Oct 29, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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I'm pretty sure Bridwell had it called Sacherer Cracker for his list of
5.10 climbs in his 73 Ascent article.
I certainly knew it by that name before any of Meyers' publications.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2009 - 12:04pm PT
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Maybe the question we should be asking is who actually named the thing since the first two of Roper's guides didn't and it was called the Sacherer Cracker by Bridwell before Meyers came out.
I'm thinking that maybe Bridwell came up with the name?
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scuffy b
climber
Whuttiz that Monstrosicos Inferno?
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Oct 29, 2009 - 12:09pm PT
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I also thought, back then, that everyone was pronouncing "Sacherer"
with 3 syllables, but the third syllable barely distinguishable.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Oct 29, 2009 - 01:21pm PT
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I would guess that either Jim named the route or, if not directly, promoted it. It seemed to be the name from the early 70s.
The pronunciation of the route name, if my memory is correct, was Sacherer Cracker. Sacherer's name, in general conversation, usually sounded like Sa- ker', but when pronounced with Cracker it needed the third syllable. Sacherer Crackerer, with three syllables in both words doesn't sound right to my ear. Eric Beck might also remember the naming.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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Does anybody know the date of the first Meyer's guide?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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I believe that I bought it at first opprtunity and mine says 1982.
Edit: Yellow Book is what came to mind.
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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It should be Sacherer Crackerer, but Frank himself did not enunciate the last 2 syllables of his name that clearly -- his pronunciation was somewhere between 'Sach-er' and 'Sach-er-er'. Similarly, the climb's name is between 'Crack-er' and 'Crack-er-er' but should be spelled with the 'erer' if for no other reason than alliteration. But Roger is right too, in that we generally don't enunciate all 3 syllables.
I remember at the Lodge some woman had to write down Frank's name (I forget the reason). When she was finished he had to tell her to add the 2nd 'er'.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
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"I believe that I bought it at first opprtunity and mine says 1982."
I don't think so (although I don't have it in front of me).
My first trip to the Valley was 1979 and I could swear I had a copy of the green, loose leaf Meyer guide if that year then the following. Could be wrong though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
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My green loose leaf guide still has a topo that Kevin drew of Space Babble and Mother Earth that went up in 76 and 75 respectively. I used the topo for the Tangerine Trip that was included and went up in 73. I would guess that the 1974 would be about right for the original green version.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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A shot of Rob Matheson on the route in question from Yosemite Climber.
How many folks out there have done the Mark of Art?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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AFAIK, the green Meyers guide was published in summer 1976. A bunch of us went to the Valley that September, and stopped in Modesto at Robbins' store. We were pleasantly surprised to see and buy the book there - we hadn't heard it existed, and it wasn't available at REI in Seattle.
I still have it, sans covers. There's nothing to indicate date of publication.
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