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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 28, 2009 - 10:23am PT
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This discussion started on another thread. It seems that most people say Sacherer Cracker while I always thought Sacherer himself called it the Sacherer Crackerer. Meanwhile, some people are conflating Bachar and Sachar.
I checked the 1974 Roper (red) guidebook but it wasn't listed there since it was probably done about the time the guide went to press. Can someone look it up in the next edition of Roper's guidebook and see what that says?
And can anyone around at the time remember who named it and how it was pronounced?
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Oct 28, 2009 - 10:46am PT
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in the 70's and 80's always heard it pronounced just straight-up
SacherCracker.
probably part the conflation you mention, and I suspect
partly just a linguistic expedient of common speech at work as well.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2009 - 10:54am PT
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Most Sacherers in the U.S. have dropped the double er as it is redundant and hard to pronounce.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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Jan
The first time it appears is in the earliest Meyers guide (the loose ring binder green one), and is Sacherer Cracker
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:27am PT
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Every since I first climbed it in 1981 or so, everyone has said "Sacherer Cracker" which is pronounced like Sack-her Crack-her
So you might as well speck it "Sacherer Crackerer" if it's pronounced the same.
You could say it rhymes nice like "Bacher Cracker" but, the Bachar family will tell you that the correct pronunciation of Bachar is not "Back-her" but something that more "Ba-khar"
That's the way languages rolls, keeps changing and getting distorted
Peace
Karl
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 28, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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Jan- Roper's green guide describes the route as a variation of the Center Route on the Slack but gives no name. I have always wondered if the name was bestowed upon it by others who cracked or whether it gave Frank a rough time. I love the route and have done it dozens of times. Could be my favorite 5.10a now that I think about it!
Roper would be the person to nail this one down. I would be happy to provide you with contact information.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2009 - 01:10pm PT
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Steve-
I have Roper's email so I'll go ahead and ask him.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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Just heard from Roper and he's not sure either.
Says I should contact George Meyers.
Does anybody know how to email him?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 29, 2009 - 11:29am PT
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The SC was my first Yosemite 5.10. I did it with TM Herbert and I recall having a desperate time getting my clunky Robbins Blue Boots in the beginning narrow section.
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scuffy b
climber
Whuttiz that Monstrosicos Inferno?
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Oct 29, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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I'm pretty sure Bridwell had it called Sacherer Cracker for his list of
5.10 climbs in his 73 Ascent article.
I certainly knew it by that name before any of Meyers' publications.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2009 - 12:04pm PT
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Maybe the question we should be asking is who actually named the thing since the first two of Roper's guides didn't and it was called the Sacherer Cracker by Bridwell before Meyers came out.
I'm thinking that maybe Bridwell came up with the name?
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scuffy b
climber
Whuttiz that Monstrosicos Inferno?
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Oct 29, 2009 - 12:09pm PT
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I also thought, back then, that everyone was pronouncing "Sacherer"
with 3 syllables, but the third syllable barely distinguishable.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Oct 29, 2009 - 01:21pm PT
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I would guess that either Jim named the route or, if not directly, promoted it. It seemed to be the name from the early 70s.
The pronunciation of the route name, if my memory is correct, was Sacherer Cracker. Sacherer's name, in general conversation, usually sounded like Sa- ker', but when pronounced with Cracker it needed the third syllable. Sacherer Crackerer, with three syllables in both words doesn't sound right to my ear. Eric Beck might also remember the naming.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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Does anybody know the date of the first Meyer's guide?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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I believe that I bought it at first opprtunity and mine says 1982.
Edit: Yellow Book is what came to mind.
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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It should be Sacherer Crackerer, but Frank himself did not enunciate the last 2 syllables of his name that clearly -- his pronunciation was somewhere between 'Sach-er' and 'Sach-er-er'. Similarly, the climb's name is between 'Crack-er' and 'Crack-er-er' but should be spelled with the 'erer' if for no other reason than alliteration. But Roger is right too, in that we generally don't enunciate all 3 syllables.
I remember at the Lodge some woman had to write down Frank's name (I forget the reason). When she was finished he had to tell her to add the 2nd 'er'.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
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"I believe that I bought it at first opprtunity and mine says 1982."
I don't think so (although I don't have it in front of me).
My first trip to the Valley was 1979 and I could swear I had a copy of the green, loose leaf Meyer guide if that year then the following. Could be wrong though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
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My green loose leaf guide still has a topo that Kevin drew of Space Babble and Mother Earth that went up in 76 and 75 respectively. I used the topo for the Tangerine Trip that was included and went up in 73. I would guess that the 1974 would be about right for the original green version.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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A shot of Rob Matheson on the route in question from Yosemite Climber.
How many folks out there have done the Mark of Art?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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AFAIK, the green Meyers guide was published in summer 1976. A bunch of us went to the Valley that September, and stopped in Modesto at Robbins' store. We were pleasantly surprised to see and buy the book there - we hadn't heard it existed, and it wasn't available at REI in Seattle.
I still have it, sans covers. There's nothing to indicate date of publication.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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It was, to my best recollection, always
"the Sacherer Cracker,
after Royal repeated the route and gave
it its name, one of his classic puns.
My first trip up the route (have
made many ascents of it since) was with
Bridwell in about 1966 or '67 (would
have to look at my journal), and
certainly Bridwell called it
"the Sacherer Cracker" at that time.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Pat-Do you recall if it gave Frank a rough time or "cracked' everybody else?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Mighty Hiker- "AFAIK, the green Meyers guide was published in the summer of 1976".
As far as I can recall, George had barely began working on the guide by the summer of '76'. But I could be wrong.
Perhaps there was some sort of a preliminary draft by the Fall of '76' available at RR's store in Modesto, because George was a good friend of Royal's. I remember George speaking admirably of him (George guided for Royal's 'Rockcraft' seminars during the mid '70's).
I recall George going to Patagonia the winter of '75-76', and after his return from there his photo's being stolen (summer '76'?). But that could have been the summer of '77'.
I recall George having big hopes of a "secret endeavor" of his being successful. That was the Spring/Summer of '75'. I believe I was the first person he revealed the nature of it to after much prodding on my part. He had sunk his whole pay load into a half page add (maybe it was a quarter page) in the 'Wall Street Journal' as a private climbing guide/school/get away, in the Eastern Sierra.
I remember finally asking him the outcome, poor George, he got only one response to the add.
George's next 'endeavor', was a 'chimney sweep' business in Mammoth that some how didn't fare much better.
After the publication of the green Roper guide of '72', there was a notebook in which anyone doing a new route would document the route there in.
By the mid-seventies this notebook was considered a guarded/protected (my evaluation) document. It had become a sort of part of the C4 culture. In other words, this is the way it is, no new guide books. The 'Valley' had already been to over trodden, and it didn't need another guide.
I remember when George announced his intentions to write a new guide. It gave me pause. I was a bit startled, perhaps I raised my eyebrows. But it was clear to me that George was determined to go through with it. It was a bold and what initially seemed like a somewhat confrontational exploit.
But as it turned out, everyone was ready for it if the right man stepped to the plate, and George was the man, he had paid his dues.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Jan!
For what it's worth, from the early '70's I herd it pronounced as the Sacker-rur Cracker. And concluded that rather than calling it the Sacherer Crack, they called it the Sacherer Cracker to rhyme with his last name.
But that was merely my conclusion.
Frank Sacherer was held in the highest regards amongst 'Valley' climbers, and renown for his boldness by the time I lead the route in 1974.
I remember my three friends being repelled by a thin hand/finger crack about thirty feet up. And how sweet it felt when I sunk and locked off the first digit of my right index finger, and dropped in a wired nut to protect the rest of the crack leading to the 5.8 off-width/chimney.
I remember several occasions when I was tempted to shout out the classic Frank Sacherer exclamation "come on you chicken shit" to one of my climbing buddies.
There was an often told story that went along with that well known line, that has slipped my memory at this time.
Frank Sacherer was a 'Legend' by the time I became enamoured with Yosemite. So much so, (there was a certain reverence applied to the man) that in my mind I had presumed that he had already passed away.
And so when I read of his death in 1977 I was very much saddened and surprised.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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I'm certain that the first (green cover) of Meyer's Yosemite Climbs was commercially available (Robbins' shop, Currie mountain shop) in September 1976.
He may by then have been working on Yosemite Climber (picture/history book), but it wasn't published until 1979 or 1980.
The green Roper guidebook was published in 1970.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jorge posted here for a while, I bet he could answer the question.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Luckily Sacherer Cracker is such a fine climb that it's unlikely that anyone will find that it's not what it was crackerered up to be.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Mighty Hiker!
You are definitely correct in regards to the green Roper guide. I still have the one I purchased in 1971 around here someplace, I don't know why I said '72'.
Regarding the green Meyer guide, mine is long gone. I new it wouldn't last long with the paper (cardboard)cover.
It probably was the fall of '76'.
George became totally consumed (understandably so) with his efforts to accomplish what he did. Just my opinion. And the carefree guy I new was following a deep down aspiration to achieve success. He occasionally spoke of achievement, and in his good natured way encouraged me to aspire.
Those are two of his traits I remember most, his good naturedness/ allot of fun to be around, and a determination to succeed in life that rose above the norm.
I just recall avoiding an encounter with George after about Spring of '76' because it would usually intail a request to take the majority of a day to hike up some obscure canyon to get a shot of such and such face.
So my memory is fuzzy regarding dates to say the least.
I hope I am not embarrassing anyone here, because I obviously admire the man, and just decided to share some of my memories.
And sorry Jan about getting off the main topic, I tend to have a round about way of getting to the point.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Taken of me by my partner and friend, Darwin Alonso, in 1970:
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Steve, did Mark of Art in '84. Super good continuous climbing on stellar stone. Required six or so cams of the same size if I remember correctly. Wild country # 1 friends.....classic!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I did the Mark on nuggets only, BITD and it was pretty stout. The name came from Mark Chapman and Art Higbee, the FAers back in 74!
Peter- Hanging and banging must have made the bottom really tough since it keeps widening all the way the first good hand jam!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Nice! A bit harder fishin' in nuts I'd imagine-
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2009 - 12:23am PT
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Just got a note back from Royal that reads in part:
"I don't remember naming the Sacherer Cracker. I was going to suggest asking Pat Ament, but I see you have already looked into that. I don't think it's Crackerer by the way. I am sorry I can't confirm or deny."
Next stop, Bridwell. Does anyone have an email address for him?
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Nov 10, 2009 - 12:32am PT
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Royal's memory is very good in most respects, but some
details are lost, things that at the time probably
would not have seemed overly important. Then years go by.
I would almost bet my life he named it. In fact when
I went to Yosemite with Royal in 1964, I have a vague memory
of him saying something along the lines of Sacherer doing a crack,
and then adding, "a Sacherer cracker." I can't positively confirm
that memory, but I usually do remember reasonably well. He was
nutty with puns and word plays in those days, almost more so
even than in later years... Only Kamps really got into the
word games as much as Royal...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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Nov 10, 2009 - 12:39am PT
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Have you asked Bonnie K.? She has a Great memory. lrl
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Nov 10, 2009 - 12:42am PT
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Jan, Todd Gordon is in regular touch with Jim Bridwell, and could perhaps ask on your behalf. I have the impression that he doesn't have e-mail, at least not regular e-mail. Others may have contact information.
My friend Hamish (Hamie - posted to the Frank Sacherer thread) was in the Valley a lot in 1964 and 1965, knew many people, and might remember something about the name. Except that he's in southeast Asia for another few weeks.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the Twilight Zone of someone else's intentions
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Nov 10, 2009 - 02:54pm PT
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great climb! I think it was my first pitch of 5.10 in the Valley.
Right after I led S.C., my partner led Mark of Art. He was so casual on it that I thought it would be a cruise. I found it to be quite a bit more pumpy than I imagined, even just following it. I can't imagine hanging around to wiggle in nuts.
-Nick
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 10, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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I once heard Royal say of someone we both knew: "He is ofter right, but speaks always with the same authority." Great line.
In response to Jan's original question, I re-read portions of Meyers' "Yosemite Climber" last night (the siging copy came to me yesterday) and George spelled it "Sacherer Cracker."
Regarding the attirbuiton, I can image many people in the Valley who would have rephrased "Sacherer Crack" or "Sacherer's Crack" as "Sacherer Cracker."
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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Ultra-classic Bump!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 11, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
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Jan-
I dug out the first Meyers "Yosemite Climbs" Topo Guide, the green one; in the green topo guide, it is listed as the "Sacherer Cracker." No extra -er on Cracker.
Rodger
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
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May 26, 2015 - 11:36am PT
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A great climb by any name! I've done it several times over the years, but it's been a while now. Since you need two ropes to get down I take a #4 camalot for the first little flare section. Then I pull the rest of the rack up on the trail line when I get to the ledge below the thin section (way less thrash that way).
I like going a couple more pitches to the top of the Slack pinnacle then rapping down the other side coming down La escuela. On the way down I'll take a run on the third pitch of La escuela which goes at 10a and is stellar! If it started at the ground probably be one of the more popular 10a's in the park.
On the trip when these photos were taken Tom Roher and a friend of his Ben "just don't call me dover" jugged up behind me so Tom could replace all the mank sh#t that was the anchor on top of the Slack with two nice stainless bolts with chains.
Here we all are back on the ground after a job well done. These guys were funny!, I was sore from laughing so much that day.
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