not willing to relinquish this land

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hooblie

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 19, 2009 - 12:00pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fire19-2009aug19,0,3207658.story

an invasion by any other name is an invasion. we should be able to tramp around in our own forest without fear of being under armed.
this is not about pot, it's about natural law: title to a land goes to those who defend it. i say kick 'em out and take it back.

i'm saying there are enough tree huggers in this country to stomp every creek in the forest and commit to doing it again next year.
that could be disuasive. defend the privacy of your home, but stand for access to the public domain.

i concluded long ago that you WILL get all the BS you agree to put up with. these guys don't have my tacit approval
no matter what i have might have in common with their maveric nature.

don't call yourself green or patriotic in front of me if you condone this ... i'm agin it
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:08pm PT
If we legalize it then tax it we could help the economy and squash this problem. How bout that?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
I don't see anywhere in that article where it even IMPLIED that the gov't is goint to seize land. WTF?

It does point out one reason that Forest Service and Rangers now need to carry sidearms though.
hooblie

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 12:26pm PT
it's the growers that HAVE seized it. can you argue that i am any more than marginally safer tromping around amongst these guys on my side of the border than on their side? and would i even consider cruising around in their growing regions. i am not happy about eco-damage on either side of the border.

it doesn't have to have granite on it for me to want it back. you think being treated like a suspect for showing up at the airport wearing shoes is bad, wait till you're the only non-combatant in the forest, trying to prove you aren't a suspect. bring back the grizzlies and wolves, but humans, in the form of armed paranoids outside the social contract, with big bucks and accountability to their bosses at stake, give me the willies. particularly when some of these desperate minions know how disposable they are
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:31pm PT
Well then, hooblie, I agree wholeheartedly.

Last year a Park Service ranger was shot in the leg by a cartel grower here in the Bay Area. Right in the Los Gatos hills!!!

Messed up!
apogee

climber
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:51pm PT
There is a spring here in my nearby mountains that has been used for years by people who enjoy good, clean mountain water- people bring their big water bottles and fill up, and bring it back home.

The spring was closed earlier this year because a pot farm uphill of it had contaminated the spring with pesticide and fertilizer run off.

These are our lands, and they are being 'seized' by others for their exclusive use. If we get upset about gear being cached near the Hulk, why aren't we more pissed off about this far greater abuse?
jstan

climber
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
Here in SB we have heard of several incidents where hikers felt the need to flee when armed individuals were encountered. There may be a simple straightforward way to deal with this.

The water.

Where there is little or no water you will not find agriculture. And the growth cycle is sufficiently long that you can effectively prevent this if each site with water is closely visited every three months or so.

Sites with water are fairly well mapped but now that there have been recent burns volunteers could help the FS methodically walk the areas and record GPS and visual data for every substantial water source.

The FS could then prepare helicopter landing sites where needed so that minimal time and effort would be needed to provide blanket surveillance. Indeed where needed, controlled burns could keep the most critical areas along streams easily apparent from the air.

EIS would be needed, I am sure, but I think the need is now apparent.

And yes. My opinion is quite unimportant but I have to say I am beginning to agree. We have almost as much medical data on the medical risks posed by marijuana as we have on tobacco. (It does tend to make normal people become climbers but that is what we have jails for.)

We used to enforce prohibitions on the numbers rackets and alcohol but have since turned them into big money makers for the state,

It may well be time……….

scarcollector

climber
CO
Aug 19, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
I'm with you.
These growers, particularly from the cartels have no concern for the land or people. (There was an article in Harpers Magazine recently about the drug cartels that was just scary.)

I don't think that the legalization for the supply side of marajuana has caught up with the demand side yet. Legal to sell (w/ prescription) in CA but not to grow on any larger scale = supply demand imbalance.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Aug 19, 2009 - 01:09pm PT
The money is too good. It's a multi bilion dollar industry in California.

The growers will find ways to support our demand. If we can't change the demand, legalize and tax is the only way.

The problem with the tax is that I bet the price drops with legalization. How many of your "contractor," or "landscaper," friends would go out of business with legalization? That's an interesting question. The answer should be the same regardless. The stuff does more harm as an illegal substance than it would if legal.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Aug 19, 2009 - 01:14pm PT
(It does tend to make normal people become climbers but that is what we have jails for.)

HEY I SAW WHAT YOU DID THERE JSTAN....:-) LOL
hooblie

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
jstan, that is a line for the ages. rush to the copyright office
Josh Nash

Social climber
riverbank ca
Aug 19, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
This pisses me off! I think we as users need to take some action and help the law enforcment agencies out by reporting what we see. You know when a stream has been diverted. You know the signs that something is up. Why not help the agencies out a little and report what you see. I know I am.
jstan

climber
Aug 19, 2009 - 02:30pm PT
RJ:
I was thinking the Los Padres where this camp was located.

For the whole state probably only cutting down the profit margin will help.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Aug 19, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
Rj, They have bigger guns
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Aug 19, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
Legalizing it should be a great dissinsentive for cartel-style grows. It would also lower the profit margin on gang activity. Simplistic? Maybe.
hooblie

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 03:59pm PT
come one rocjox, let loose with both barrels, then join the cause. you know i was calling you out.
you'd be right if this was some other country where the counter insurgents had to be inserted and supported like say, idunno... but

we've got the homeland advantage. the dry nature of this end of the country turns it into a linear patrol of the watercourses. we'll never find the spot growers that can sustain a few plants with stored or hauled water, but those aren't the guys with hired guns and industrial scale pollution.

i watched the scene in humbolt go from agrarian idealists, to ambitious commercialists preyed upon by urban thugs, to indoor pros and gentrified hobbyists. it was sad to see a loose and loopy culture turn furtive and insular for a while but the scene matured.

now it's queer but strangely benign to see pensioners with a clearly marked hydroponics service van parked in the driveway for a couple of days, while the local utility district merrily strings new higher capacity power lines over the hill. it ain't green but that's the way we have it.

that doesn't make me feel invaded and anxious to muster an effective push back or else surrender territory
that deserves to be restored to the pastoral ambiance that i associate with the homeland.

a country full of stoners, disappointing but i don't dwell on it. no response to the ride of paul revere? i can't take it.
what would david brower do, calculate the acreage and throw in the towel?
atchafalaya

climber
Babylon
Aug 19, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
A few years ago, in the middle of winter, I stumbled on a huge growing op off I-80. No plants, but active irrigation lines, mounds of chemicals and fertilizers and an entire archaeological site ruined by mexican growers. I had run into another grow site, same drainage of the American, a few years before, but smaller operation. Couple guys, some tubing, friendly, but serious.

I ended up reporting the mexican growers. Didnt care that they grew the herb. But they trashed a site I loved, that once supported a small town of about 5000 people in the 1850'2 during the gold rush. Miles of plastic tubing, trash and chemicals all over the hillside.

LE told me if I waited till they had plants, I would have been given a reward. I just wanted LE to bring in a copter and remove the trash. They swarmed the area with camo and assault rifles, but refused to haul out the trash. No cash for cleanup.

I Report those trashing wilderness areas to grow.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 19, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
Simplistic? Maybe.

No, not at all. While legalization is obviously not as simple as the President signing a "Pot is now legal" bill, some form of legalization is the only way you'll get the gangs out of those mountains.

The current situation is an inevitable result of the "War On Drugs" and will continue as long as that idiotic war continues. (And it doesn't just affect the mountain wilderness -- there's a thousand times as much danger from drug gangs in the urban wilderness).

But good luck getting it changed. How many politicians in the US do you think are willing to stand up and say "We've got to decriminalize the marijuana industry"?
Mike.

climber
Aug 19, 2009 - 05:09pm PT
More collateral damage in the "war on drugs."

"Marijuana Tax Act"...that's hilarious. DuPont, The Miracles of Science, er, The Power of Money. Excuse me, I have to be go retch my guts out.
jstan

climber
Aug 19, 2009 - 05:36pm PT
calculate the acreage and throw in the towel

ta da ta da

calculate the acreage ta da and throw in the towel

dah tuh da ............ da


Dang! Hooblie's got rhythm.
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