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myterious
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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If we'd actually enforce our imigration laws, we would not have these problems. We knowingly and willingly allow an eromous black labor market to exists, and then fret when those in the the in black labor market turn to criminal and destrucive activities. Both political parties have been criminally negligent in not enforcing immigration laws, and now our public land and citizen pay the price.
MM
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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these little tit for tat skirmishes don't please me. the status quo is well served by agencies, user groups, and growers who enjoy inflated prices by current policies. the conundrum feeds into the hands of medical dispenseries and their customers...i don't care to debate such things from the viewpoint of tired old constituencies.
we, i mean WE the users and owners, are impacted by the militarization of the public lands where lame bureaucratic responses at the token level (meaning rangers with side arms) fail to solve problems which demand the attention at the full alert patriot level, and WE are caught hiding behind the vested interests of neutered government minions. edit: unfair, they're outgunned, the higher ups decide.
bolting wars were hardly preparation for real turf wars involving what kind of assumptions will prevail regarding the public lands.
am i off the mark here, or should we make room for foriegn cartels in the land of many uses?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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What are you saying Hooblie? I'm sorry, I don't understand your point.
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enjoimx
Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
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If we'd actually enforce our imigration laws, we would not have these problems. We knowingly and willingly allow an eromous black labor market to exists, and then fret when those in the the in black labor market turn to criminal and destrucive activities. Both political parties have been criminally negligent in not enforcing immigration laws, and now our public land and citizen pay the price.
MM
Well yeah, but...the problem is more in that there is a huge demand for an illegal good.
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Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Really legalize smoking, make it much easier for people to legally grow it on their land, create an easier distribution process, plus tax and regulate the process. It will create much needed revenue for the state, create jobs, and... It will no longer be profitable to grow it on hidden illegal farms run by shady characters.
I know a few folks that would love to make it one of their cash crops. Yet because the state has not clearly legalize growing, they can't risk it.
AFS
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enjoimx
Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
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Legalization would also relinquish some of the stigma surrounding weed, stigma that ironically makes it attractive to some people. I think, for all the people worried about possible negative social effects of legalized pot, its very possible that legalization would decrease the attractiveness of the drug, much like what is going on now with cigarettes and alcohol, both being demonized for their negative health effects.
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2010 - 10:34am PT
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dingus, nothing but net! i hear it can get a little testy in truffle country, what is it ginko in the east?
that uranium frenzy post war sure impacted the colorado plateau.
you spoze post legalization it will be sooo cheap that the encroachment will be strictly by the docile, and pushback by the budget strapped agencies will be able to tidy up just fine or should a CULTURAL message of zero tolerance be sent in the present tense?
no worries couch, it's a rant. if you're not already prone to incitement, i can be a little abstract.
maybe just look for rimes, double entendre, cagey conjugations... brazen alliteration.
there's something for everyone! you tease ok i hope :)
notice the dropped period on final paragraphs? brilliant. ahead of it's time
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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No Hooblie, I just learned last night that the Forest service police have put cameras on all the national forest development roads around here. Last year they took a trackhoe and dug deep pits on all the logging spur roads off the main gravel road of a road I've been using extensively. At the time, I figured that they just wanted the roads to disappear and the forest to naturally regenerate. 2 weeks ago I was up hiking into my climbing area and when I came out, bumped into an armed forest service patrol....something I find new, strange, unneeded and unwelcome. Yet I did know one of the guys and we did the hail fellow well met thing.....
..now I'm thinking that they were blocking off the little side roads so that they can monitor and supervise us subjects better as we parade about the Kings forest.
When I see stories like that linked above, it reminds me that my lil brother, who works for the federal government, often send stories into the papers. One time, they sent in this huge press release, and the newspaper printed it word for word with the exception of the added first paragraph suggesting that they had been doing investigative journalism, and the byline. IT WAS THE HEADLINE FRONT PAGE STORY! and took up most of the front page and was continued on the back pages.
That bullshit story is most likely a press release to get you fired up so that when they lock down the forests and it's worse than anything Orwell could dream up in 1984, you are compliant.
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2010 - 10:52am PT
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^^^ exactly the price i'm unwilling to pay. we must rid ourselves of these rats.
glad to see your temperature rising
~~~~~
"A cultural message of zero tolerance DOESN'T EXIST."
to stop the abuse of the forest?... polluting the streams?... setting booby traps?... burning 75 sq. miles at a time? ... threatening hikers?
quit casting it as a stoner thing, i'm not talking about our right to party
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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OK, so you're saying that the government, and their thug like armed intrusions, are more dangerous than the pot growers this artificial is decrying?
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2010 - 11:07am PT
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part and parcel of the degradation. i'm reacting to the whole militarization that's afoot in the hobbit.
the mexican army has it's hands full. their late response was predated by a tolerant environment. the little people naively
nurtured the establishment of the gangs by neglecting to call bs at the grass roots level. we should take a lesson.
waiting for politicians to come around to seeing it cheech's way, proposing that the problem will dry up and blow away
when cartel accountants call for layoffs in the forest cause "pot's so cheap it doesn't pencil out"
is NON-RESPONSIVE at best
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Hooble said:
"you spoze post legalization it will be sooo cheap that the encroachment will be strictly by the docile..."
Yah, that'll never work. I mean, just look at all the illicit tobacco crops blighting our forests.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Dec 28, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
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Enjomix, good point
Legalization would also relinquish some of the stigma surrounding weed, stigma that ironically makes it attractive to some people. I think, for all the people worried about possible negative social effects of legalized pot, its very possible that legalization would decrease the attractiveness of the drug, much like what is going on now with cigarettes and alcohol, both being demonized for their negative health effects.
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Cloudraker
Sport climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 28, 2012 - 08:50pm PT
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You will never manage to find all the major water sources and growing spots in a state the size of Cali, its flat impossible, there aren't enough helicopters, patrol officers and other resources in the WORLD to cover Cali alone. A man can actually cover only a few acres a day at most. How many people would it take to cover 100,000 square miles, at what, 640 acres per square mile, assuming visits twice a year in the growth season, a ten hour day and a budget of lets say 10 trillion dollars?
High res satellite imagery with near-infrared band(s) covering the exttent of California forests would do the trick for advanced detection of outdoor grow ops. Collect early summer imagery, look for landcover veg features in the forest that are anomalous, send in armed airborne drones to have a closer look, followed by narco agents for the pre-harvest crop tear down and bust.
Problem solved!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 28, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
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Last summer while hiking out of the Sierras over Sawmill Pass I came across what looked to be the remnants of a grow operation. It was several miles from the trailhead and kinda creepy being that far in not knowing if there were booby traps or guys lurking about. We saw drip lines, buckets, cooking stuff and propane tanks. They picked a good canyon, Sawmill sees very little traffic now that it's unmaintained.
A few years back while crawling through old mines north of the Saline Valley we crawled into a large chamber accessed by a vertical shaft that was a meth lab, totally freaky coming upon what looked like a mad scientists lab 100 feet underground. When we climbed out of the mine we kept our heads on a swivel looking and waiting for the cooks to return. We beat feet and after a long soak in the hot springs I told a LEO about our discovery and he said the Inyos have become a popular place for clandestine labs. That was probably 6-7 years ago, maybe it's gotten better by now.
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