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Erik of Oakland
Gym climber
Oakland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 12, 2008 - 01:16pm PT
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planning a long, multiday (probably three-day) ridge traverse in May, staying on the crest (about 13,500) for the entirety.
Given we'll be climbing with big, overnight packs, along with rope, rack, etc., what is the etiquette for shittting? And what would the etiquette be for a really long trip (e.g. the Paliade Traverse), that might take more than a week?
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Dec 12, 2008 - 01:28pm PT
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Sierra smear would be my choice (given your "we'll" is only two or three people).
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Where are YOU from?
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Dec 12, 2008 - 01:40pm PT
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And be sure YOU lead!
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snakefoot
climber
cali
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Dec 12, 2008 - 01:45pm PT
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whatever you do, do it with style....cover your tracks....
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adam d
climber
CA
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Dec 12, 2008 - 02:12pm PT
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definitely don't smear it. That's on the LNT sh*t list. Even up high, bury it if you're not taking it with you.
High use alpine areas need a poop plan (like WAG bagging at Iceberg Lake below Whitney/Russell). Probably more candidates for this sort of management.
Sometimes a mud falcon high on a route is unavoidable though...
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dfinnecy
Social climber
san joser
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Dec 12, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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What is the LNT sh*t list? I always thought the smear tech sounded pretty good and primaly satisfying in a 2-year old in the nursery way?
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adam d
climber
CA
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Dec 12, 2008 - 02:55pm PT
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LNT sh*t list as in, not the most leave no trace technique to plaster your crap all over some boulder.
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dfinnecy
Social climber
san joser
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Dec 12, 2008 - 03:48pm PT
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Ahh, LNT = leave no trace. Got it.
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apogee
climber
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Dec 12, 2008 - 05:51pm PT
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Fecal Management (a new department in Dept. Homeland Security) is pretty dependent on the situation. Definitely, the ideal is to carry it out- truly LNT- which may very well become the singular option, as human impact in the backcountry increases.
For now, short of that, cat-holing or smearing are still options (for small groups), if used in the right places. If there is lots of organic material around (generally well below treeline), cat-holing is probably the best option. At or above treeline, where little or no organic material is present, cat-holing is probably going to result in a preserved turd that breaks down very slowly, and risks percolation or flushing of bacteria/viruses/protozoans into the groundwater. Nonetheless, this might still be the best choice if you are in an area where there are lots of people around.
Smearing is an effective technique, but obviously very unaesthetic. Having done a little High Sierra field experimentation myself, it does work pretty well- a properly-placed turd (yup) will dessicate and blow away within about 2-3 weeks. Extreme care needs to be paid to location- south facing, little/no risk of the stuff washing or blowing into any kind of water source, and virtually no risk of someone else finding the mess. Mid-summer is about the best time to consider it, when days are long and rain is less likely. This technique probably only makes sense on very remote cross-country routes that are not commonly travelled (or known to others).
Just my sh*tty thoughts.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 12, 2008 - 10:20pm PT
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wag baggit-with kitty litter or something...
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adam d
climber
CA
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Dec 12, 2008 - 10:48pm PT
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I know many places think the schmear is an appropriate option. Personally, I haven't done it for a long time.
The idea is you smear the poop thin enough that it is cooked by the sun, flakes off and blows away. Are the microbes really killed through this? Did you smear it thin enough? Where did that poop blow? (in the river/lake in the bottom of the valley).
Granted N. Cascades are different than the Sierra, but the NPS there says no smear.
http://www.nps.gov/noca/climbing-2005.pdf
Maybe reasonable in extremely remote areas, but I'm sure bummed when I find someone's crap wiped everywhere.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:00pm PT
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Dig a hole and bury it, WTF. Who carries their sh#t with them other than than the obvious respondants.
I thought the rule was burying is cool if done right. Carry a small sh#t shovel. Bury it. Nature takes over. I wouldn't pack crap with me, c'mon, be realistic here.
It's easy to say just put it off your pack, but...dude dig a discreet hole, bury it, move on.
What would John Muir do? Does a Muir sh#t in the Sierra? You betcha!
I think you guys take this LNT sh#t too seriously and to unreasonable extremes. Don't leave trash, of course, but bury your crap somewhat deep. Maybe pack out the TP.
Sheesh!
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adam d
climber
CA
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:03pm PT
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blue...I'm with you 95% of the time, but some high places just have too many people and too much sh*te to leave it all there (kinda like the taco sometimes...more than a few folks would have been better served by packing out their posts at times)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
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Yeah, you can't dump on top of Cathedral or something, you have to be discreet, where you can actually bury it. Most of us have good judgement about where to bury a dump. Hold it until you find a spot!
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tinker b
climber
your local park
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:13pm PT
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lnt says no smear because they are teaching this to the masses and were finding smears in all the wrong places. above treeline it seems pretty damaging to dig around, and not that much in the way of organic material, i still smear...follow everyone else's advice, out of the way, southfacing, away from water sources, and waterways, really spread it...plan ahead, good enough happens when you are peaking. snow prohibits digging, and digging in tree wells is not so good for the trees (or so i have heard). i have packed it out in snow. a good system is well worth it (i have used some shitty systems, not so fun.) wag bags work well...get the air out before you close the bag. be careful out there.
remember all snow becomes water.
peace
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:20pm PT
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Smearing sounds like rationalizing that you're doing the 'right thing'. You still have fecal matter on the surface, no? That's disgusting.
Maybe I'm missing something about 'smearing'. Just dig a fuking hole and bury it!
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:22pm PT
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If we don't poop in the woods today...we deny untold numbers of future archaeologists the thrill of finding a 21th century coprolite.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 12, 2008 - 11:24pm PT
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"look at this nugget I found!!!"
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