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waltereo01
Trad climber
Montreal, Canada
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 3, 2008 - 12:51am PT
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Hi,
I'm about to buy a GPS handheld for the climb approach and descend etc ... . I'm wondering, which one is the best for the valley/Tulomne/High Sierra according to your local experience ??
My criteria :
- lightweight
- battery life
- Mapping
- bright screen
So far, from reviews Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx seems the best .
Thank
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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GPS in the Valley can be a problem at times, at least on the floor, as you have limited line-of-sight due to your being in a canyon... the trees don't help, either.
Why do you need a GPS in the Valley? Usually you can see where you are anytime you're likely to be out and about.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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He's asking about beyond the Valley as well.
The 60CS is good. The VistaC is a little smaller and does basically the same thing. The screen is pretty small, though. I have a 76CS. It floats, which makes me feel better about whipping it out in the middle of a storm. When I bought it, it had the most memory of all their units, but now that's moot as they all take memory cards. I was really psyched on the new Colorado 400's. A bigger screen is where it's at, so you can see the maps. However, the new CO 400 doesn't have a bigger screen, just more resolution, and it all seemed way slower when I tried it in the store, and wasn't much smaller or ligher than my 76. I didn't like the controls, either. 60CS or 76CS - both fine.
Get the National Park West 24K maps. They cover all of Yosemite and a little more. You'll also want the Topo USA maps. They cover the rest of the Sierra, but at a lower resolution.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I have always found the Sierra to be a very navigable mountain range. In all my time there (starting in the late 60s) I don't believe I have ever felt like I didn't know where I was.
Maybe it's just me, but studying the topography before going to a place, looking at maps and pictures (and now Google Earth!) gives me, internally, a much better idea of where I am than using a GPS.
John Muir captured it nicely...
Walk away quietly in any direction and taste the freedom of the mountaineer. Camp out among the grasses and gentians of glacial meadows, in craggy garden nooks full of nature's darlings. Climb the mountains and get their good tidings, Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. As age comes on, one source of enjoyment after another is closed, but nature's sources never fail.
from Our National Parks 1901
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I'm with you on everything you say - but then I bought a GPS. In short, they save time. They are nearly mandatory on snow and off trail because of the much larger contrast in saved time and accuracy over going without. A human with a map, compass, visual queues, whatever, is no match. Wander around aimless and stoned in the spirit of Muir, paying no attention to anything or pay all of it to something other than navigation, then flip that thing on and make a beeline home.
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Manjusri
climber
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I'm not up on the latest models, but definitely get one with a built in compass. Sucks to have to move to get a bearing. Altimeter is nice too for when you can't get the satellites.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Uh Oh.
I sense an ethical debate about to start...
:-)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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For the Valley your best best bet is to get one of them older models, I'd recommend the 'Werner 1000'. It's about as reliable as your gonna get, doesn't need batteries either...just a twinkie or two.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho
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I'm with Ed & Bluering on this one. GPS is overrated, anyway. How 'bout a MAP. Low Tech Solutions INC.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Do you have and are you proficient in use of map & compass? Perhaps combined with a wristwatch altimeter, and an appropriate guidebook, they make a pretty good and very reliable GPS. And are a necessary fallback in case of failure or loss of the more modern type of GPS.
Map & compass take a little more practice and effort, and may not be quite as precise. But they are reliable and time tested.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Columbus had a map and compass.
Look what happened to him.
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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I do like a map & compass ($10 orienteering model is fine), plus a garmin geko 201. From what I hear the electronic compasses seem to suck down battery power.
A lot of places you don't really need GPS, but they can be nice to have in certain situations. Make sure your map datum / coordinate system match the GPS settings.
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waltereo01
Trad climber
Montreal, Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2008 - 06:01pm PT
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Thanks for the responses.
And yes, I known how to use a compass / map. But GPS is far more accurate. After reading Supertopo topo on Hight sierra / tulomne, I have the feeling the gps could save me a couple precious hours in trail finding and approach. For example in the High Sierra topo, the approach for Mt Whithney seems to be a real maze.
GPS device is a complement to compass and map. Well that's 300gr in your pack but i think it worth it.
For sure, studiying the map is mandatory before the hike. But still, you could miss some intersections !
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Beware the supertopo GPS coordinates - they are in lat / lon format, with degrees, minutes, and what you might think are seconds - the last number isn't seconds, but thousandths of a minute (this should be apparent because they are frequently larger than 59 :)
For example, the Mosquito Flat trailhead (Bear Creek Spire) is listed as 37° 26' 100", 118° 44' 813" - this is actually 37 degrees, 26.1 minutes by 118 degrees, 44.813 minutes.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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I think they make a cell phone with GPS, if you want to kill two stellar jays with one wrist rocket.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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A couple of my friends were first up the approach to Snake Dike last Sunday. But they weren't sure exactly where the base of the route was. So one of them whipped out a GPS and punched in the coordinates from supertopo. Bingo, they were at the very base, just before 6 other parties showed up!
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Manjusri
climber
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"GPS device is a complement to compass and map. Well that's 300gr in your pack but i think it worth it.
Trust me, you want the compass built into the device. One of the most useful features of a gps is the mode where it displays a large arrow pointing to the next waypoint. If there is no built-in compass, it uses your changes in gps position to determine your heading. This gets really wonky when you are moving slow and pausing to routefind.
My fallback if the batteries die or satellites are obscured is the altimeter watch with backup compass. If I really need to be precise with triangulating I'll carry a compass with mirror as well.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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300 g is a lot of weight... if carbohydrate or protein, roughly 1200 Calories, half a day's need... if you are going in the "way back" for as many days as possible just pile up 300 g of food next to your GPS and make the decision...
I remember hefting 'biners vs. power bars on won trip... the choice was to be bold and full rather than wimpy and hungry... maybe that is a false dichotomy... but give a little knowledge carried around in your cranium it doesn't seem to be a dramatic trade off.
Now if all you're doing is wandering around in the Sierra, well, you probably aren't going to starve, but you still can get lost, even with the GPS constellation overhead and you knowing where you are to +/- 3m...
Keep It Simple, Stupid
words to live by (oops, this isn't the check out thread...)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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"Bingo, they were at the very base, just before 6 other parties showed up! "
That's what I'm talking about. My best stories involve dinner with lots of daylight left after an epic approach - with time to spare to scout the next morning's start.
"Trust me, you want the compass built into the device."
I have that feature but have never once used it. I always know E from W. Walking 5-10 feet to get a GPS pointer alinged is no big deal either.
"Keep It Simple, Stupid"
I flip on the power, wait 20 seconds, and "you are here" appears in the middle of a detailed map. How much simpler can it get?
If the thing dies, it uses the same batteries as my headlamp. If that fails, which I've never even heard of as most of these things built are like pacemakers, - BFD, I'll be late but probably not lost in the Sierra. On a big mountain in a whiteout, though, you're pretty much stopped or relying on other finicky intruments and voodoo. I think the whole reliabilty/backup arguement is just a theory spouted by those who lack the practice.
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