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Double D
climber
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"Best GPS handheld device for Yosemite ?"
....The old green Roper guide and sun, moon and stars.
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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If you're already carrying a compass & map, then there is no need to have a compass in the GPS. Just read the heading to your next waypoint off the GPS and apply it to the compass.
Then you can turn off the GPS and follow the compass to your next waypoint (that's where orienteering skill comes in). Generally if you are following supertopo waypoints it's pretty obvious where the next one is anyway.
300g is ~10.6 ounces. There are lighter alternatives.
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eeh
climber
East Side
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The Sierra Nevada have to be the easiest mountains in the world to navigate. All you need is a 7.5" topographic map and a good set of eyes. You can pretty much always see where you are going, on and off trail. And, as for the approach to Mt Whitney requiring a GPS - that is pretty crazy. There's a trail all the way up the North Fork, folks. GPS technology has it's place, maybe in a whiteout in the winter, but save your money if you think you need one for the Sierras in the summer.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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My older son Skyler has a GPS "watch" (Garmin Forerunner 205), which he uses to map his trail runs - 2.7 oz.
My younger son Lance has a regular GPS that he got for Xmas - Garmin etrex - 5.3 oz. (or 6.4 oz w/ case).
I haven't tried to navigate with either of these things.
We got a little lost snowboarding off the top of Lassen once with a dense cloud on top. Not much visibility, and a small change in angle off the top yields a big distance lower down. A compass or GPS would have been nice. But I agree, in most of the Sierras, it's clear and dry and visibility is good in daylight.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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In open country, all you typically need is a map. In such country, there is no point in using a GPS unit for anything you might have done with a map and compass.
If you are off-trail in the woods, however, it is a whole different ball game. A modern GPS unit (with a chip set able to handle tree cover) is vastly superior. Such situations are common in the East and Northwest but relatively rare (in the summer) in California or, say, Wyoming.
BUT: I think there is still an attractive reason to carry a GPS unit in the Sierra or Wind Rivers or other open areas, for example in the desert, although not for finding your way around during the day. If you get benighted (No one ever does that, do they?), it can be extremely difficult, even in open country, to retrace your steps and get back to camp or car. You can put your GPS unit in the pack lid in the morning and forget about it, and it records a track that will enable you to reverse your route effectively and efficiently, even in the dark by headlamp light when every space between bushes looks like the trail. It can save you many hours, perhaps a whole night out or a bivouac, and even if it is used extremely rarely, it can make an enormous difference the one time you need it.
By the way, there is other information in a GPS that can be helpful at night, such as the moonrise and moon phase. If you know, say, that you'll have a full moon in an hour, it might shape how you proceed.
I have a Garmin 60CXs. It has chips that work under heavy tree cover (and, to some extent, in canyons and near cliffs). The current lack of 24K topo maps outside National Parks restricts the utility of map-based back-country navigation, but as I suggested above, that may not be the main reason to have a unit anyway. The track reversal feature works just fine even if you don't have a detailed topo map loaded.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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"I haven't tried to navigate with either of these things. "
Forerunners are great for pacing and having a good odometer - and yeah, getting a track. Nobody uses them for navigation. I've had mine for 3 years and I'm not even sure how you would get it to display coordinates.
"You can put your GPS unit in the pack lid in the morning and forget about it, and it records a track "
I don't do that as it puts your batteries into the unknown. Also, the only reliable way to get a good track is to have that thing out in the open and correctly oriented, which some people do. It's a little geeky, though, with anything bigger than a Forerunner.
In situations where I need to "wand" the trail, I keep the GPS close at hand and occasionally turn it on, collect the waypoint, then turn it off. Unless you are in incredibly complex terrain or are a retard, all you really need are occasional waypoints. I usually only "wand" when I don't have a digital map loaded.
"The current lack of 24K topo maps outside National Parks restricts the utility of map-based back-country navigation"
Garmin's Topo USA is fine at 100k. Keep a 24k paper map in your pack if you really think you need it. However, fine contours generally are not necessary when you have a GPS nailing your position.
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waltereo01
Trad climber
Montreal, Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2008 - 06:02pm PT
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Good to known that High Sierra and Tulomne are easy to navigate with just a map and compass .
But now imagine, on a long climb (10+ pitches) with an approach of 2-3 hours, I top out in the dark and I have to find my way down and then find the trail to go back to the car. Unless you known the descent or you are with soemone who done it, my guess is the the GPS can be handy in this case.
Unless you known some tips to navigate in the dark with just your headlamp and want to share them ;-) ?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I wrote, "You can put your GPS unit in the pack lid in the morning and forget about it, and it records a track "
JLP wrote, "I don't do that as it puts your batteries into the unknown."
My typical use has been on the approach to a climb, so I turn the unit off when we get to the base and so I've never had it on anywhere near all day. I do carry spare batteries as well, but obviously you can't do this every day on an extended trip. There wouldn't any need to, however.
JLP wrote, "Also, the only reliable way to get a good track is to have that thing out in the open and correctly oriented, which some people do. It's a little geeky, though, with anything bigger than a Forerunner."
Well, I have gotten tracks that got me back in the dark in Red Rock just leaving the unit in the pack lid as I described. The tracks were obviously "good enough," but I don't have any way of knowing how accurate they really were.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I'd rather have 24K map (lightest thing) with or without compass (next), and no GPS, than a GPS and no map. I almost never go out without the map, not merely for navigation but to find interesting habitats, ski terrain, crags, whatever. Great tool. That said, GPS with an extra set of lithium batteries is also a great tool which I use heavily in work and play. Be sure to be conversant with map datum and use the right one, or those other 6 parties will be on belay while you're a few hundred yards off. Get the GPSMAP 60CSx. Has a newer type of antenna that works much better than older models (e.g., eTrex Vista) under tree canopy; also more easily used interface. I used the 60CSx for habitat mapping in DENSE tropical forest with astonishing success; same exact site where the Vista failed miserably. If you can spare the weight for a GPS, don't leave the compass behind either. Someday you'll want it. Maybe just to barter for some fine fried forest rat (no, I kept mine, and they kept the rat).
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Ah, benighted .. reminds of me of a haiku ..
Caught out -- time to spoon!
Which position do you choose;
Pitcher or catcher?
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marky
climber
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has anyone done the homework on the Oregon versus Colorado series, and how either compares to the GPSMAP series?
I vaguely recall hearing that one of these three series is an absolute dud, but I can't recall which
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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can someone remind me the best/most used way to display gps coordinates?
I'd prefer UTM, but NG Topo can deal with lat/lon, as long as the format is known. It's probably also a good idea to give the datum (I've been assuming it's WGS84).
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Chris2
Trad climber
The Gunks to Joshua Tree
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GPS in the valley...
Gaze Pleasantly Skyward
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!