Interesting, but biased Outside on Vit. D lack & sunscreen

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Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 13, 2019 - 12:01pm PT
Vitamin D is integral for much of our health, but per the below Outside Online article, the pills are ineffective & we need sunlight to generate Vit D.

However, the author of this interesting & timely Outside Online article, goes overboard in mainly spewing that all sunscreen use is bad.

Per this quote, late in the article, the Australians have advocated more resonable sun exposure during low-UV conditions.

Australia’s official advice? When the UV index is below 3 (which is true for most of the continental U.S. in the winter), “Sun protection is not recommended unless near snow or other reflective surfaces. To support vitamin D production, spend some time outdoors in the middle of the day with some skin uncovered.” Even in high summer, Australia recommends a few minutes of sun a day.


Fritz take: A very interesting batch of information. I agree with the conclusion that we need more sunlight for Vitamin D production, but I wish the author had quoted Australia's response to that data earlier in the article. It calls for less or no sunscreen use on low UV days, rather than the author implying that sunscreen is the enemy of long life. What an ass he is, especially for adding the margarine story.

Here's some of the article & links to the rest of it.

Is Sunscreen the The New Margarine?
Outside on-line Jan. 10 2019.
Rowan Jacobson.
Current guidelines for sun exposure are unhealthy and unscientific, controversial new research suggests—and quite possibly even racist. How did we get it so wrong?

If there was one supplement that seemed sure to survive the rigorous tests, it was vitamin D. People with low levels of vitamin D in their blood have significantly higher rates of virtually every disease and disorder you can think of: cancer, diabetes, obesity, osteoporosis, heart attack, stroke, depression, cognitive impairment, autoimmune conditions, and more. The vitamin is required for calcium absorption and is thus essential for bone health, but as evidence mounted that lower levels of vitamin D were associated with so many diseases, health experts began suspecting that it was involved in many other biological processes as well.

And they believed that most of us weren’t getting enough of it. This made sense. Vitamin D is a hormone manufactured by the skin with the help of sunlight. It’s difficult to obtain in sufficient quantities through diet. When our ancestors lived outdoors in tropical regions and ran around half naked, this wasn’t a problem. We produced all the vitamin D we needed from the sun.

Yet vitamin D supplementation has failed spectacularly in clinical trials. Five years ago, researchers were already warning that it showed zero benefit, and the evidence has only grown stronger. In November, one of the largest and most rigorous trials of the vitamin ever conducted—in which 25,871 participants received high doses for five years—found no impact on cancer, heart disease, or stroke.


https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WYM-Saturday-01122019&utm_content=WYM-Saturday-01122019+CID_de9e711f1712304f319d2f5b2be84cc0&utm_source=campaignmonitor+outsidemagazine

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:07pm PT
Don't you have butter things to do, Fritz?😎

Mouse!
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:14pm PT
Look into UV lights for winter use.

I agree with the Ausies, sunscreen for high and long duration uv events only.

More interesting info here:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/6/20/15838152/vitamin-d-deficiency-foods-symptoms
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:16pm PT
Drink yer milk, big boy. And you won’t catch La Femme outside w/o her sunscreen on.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2019 - 12:19pm PT
Mouse! Per your question:

Don't you have butter things to do, Fritz?😎

Mouse!


Well, no. It's very interesting to me. I am a "poster-geeze" for Basal cell skin cancers, with about 30 removed during the last 25 years. I had one Squamous cell skin cancer too, a few years back.

I'm trying to spread constructive knowledge for a change.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:21pm PT


Where are the screenshots of your D3 labs reports?

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2019 - 12:21pm PT
Reilly! Per your comeback:
Drink yer milk, big boy

Read the article big boy, then argue.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:24pm PT
Fair enough, Farmer Fritz.

Here's some "vested interest" stuff from Outside. They likely have a revenue stream from the sunscreen ads they must publish. I never buy the rag, so can't say what they actually promote.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2324356/best-sunscreens-according-you
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:29pm PT
My yardstick is Norwegians - they eat tons of milk products and they’re a lot healthier than
Australians. What Aussie has been World Ski Champeen? Dunno about their skin cancer rate.
After a month there last summer La Femme suspects it is high based on how brown they were
and how few norsk wimmen wear hats.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2019 - 12:48pm PT
Monolith! Thanks for posting that link. Interesting reading (for me).

Per this mention in the 2017 article, I believe the Outside author is quoting the results of that study, which showed little benefit from Vit. D supplements.

To clear up some of the uncertainty, the NIH has funded one of the largest randomized trials on vitamin D, with the results expected to be ready next year. Maybe then we'll have a better sense of what, if any, benefit this vitamin holds.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:55pm PT
The Fins and Norwegians have had historically high rates of heart disease, Reilly.

Your anecdotal observations are meaningless, as is often the case.

They are only now coming down to France, Spain like levels.

Google 'cardiovascular disease in Norway'

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2019 - 01:02pm PT
Mono, I stand corrected! I guess the Norskies just look healthier than Aussies. 🤡
National lifespans: Aussies - #4 / Norskies #15!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 13, 2019 - 01:11pm PT
. What Aussie has been World Ski Champeen?

What Norski has ever been World Champeen Dwarf Tosser?
Bethesda

Trad climber
Bethesda
Jan 13, 2019 - 02:40pm PT
My wife tried to buy a sunhat in Copenhagen last summer and no store had one to sell to her. The sales assistants (female all) kept saying, it is summertime, why would you want a hat?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 02:48pm PT
Well, no. It's very interesting to me. I am a "poster-geeze" for Basal cell skin cancers, with about 30 removed during the last 25 years. I had one Squamous cell skin cancer too, a few years back.

Sorry to hear this. Probably due to following the bad advice of the last 50 years. Living at a mean latitude of 44° couldn't have helped. That's a lot of indoor living. Right now in Jan. there isn't enough solar yield at 44 to keep a very small monkey happy and healthy. Remember sun exposure is about a whole lot more than just Vit. D . Sunlight entering the eye is also partly responsible for both dopamine and melatonin production, in addition to proper circadian function.
Slathering gunk on your skin probably leads to melanopsin dysfunction. In 2017 melanopsin was discovered in human skin. In a way it could be said that your skin sees light. Do you have skin in the game?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28525301

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin

I'll have to recheck my figures but if the sun doesn't get to an altitude of at least 50° in the heavens then UVB frequencies can't get through the atmosphere and no Vit. D can be produced from striking your skin. This means that the Vit. D window doesn't open up for you until April/May or thereabouts? Sheesh. I live at 34° and the window opens in early March and closes in early October. Of course other factors like altitude influences these outcomes. If your altitude is higher then the amount of UVB is correspondingly higher at whatever time of year.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2019 - 03:25pm PT
Ward: Thanks for your sympathy. My dermos & my research agree my many Basal Cell cancers come from having a redhead gene, blue eyes, & fair skin, growing up at 6,000' at latitude 44, & a really bad sunburn on my head incured while spring skiing with no sunscreen at age 19. My face swelled wonderfully, fluid poured out of skin cracks, & a week later I had a new layer of skin.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Jan 13, 2019 - 04:04pm PT
I would tend to agree with you and outside Fritz.
Vitamin d has many benefits.
Sunscreen is crucial in summer with lengthy exposure though.

Aren’t you do for your yearly Hawaii trip soon??
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Jan 13, 2019 - 04:35pm PT
Based on personal experience with Vitamin D pills, I would say they do work. I had more energy and a better mood only 3 days after taking large doses. Whenever I've stopped, I've had problems again. Some people are just better at absorbing D than others and one's ability to do so seems to change with age. Luckily, my GP recognized this could be the problem and tested my levels which were shockingly low.

Since I too have had skin cancers removed, I'm careful though not obsessed with avoiding the sun.
DanaB

climber
CO
Jan 13, 2019 - 04:47pm PT
Dozens of articles on vitamin D in PubMed by Dr. Michael Holick - endocrinologist at Boston University. He has also written several books on the topic.
D'Wolf

climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
Absolute Crap! That study. 2000 iu per day is useless. Typical government study.

Personal story: I work outdoors and always have. Can't stand sunscreen when working; sweat, dust, dirt, gets in my eyes - hate it. I play outdoors climbing, mountaineering, desert racing atv's, volleyball at the beach with friends. Will wear sunscreen at high altitudes when climbing. That's it. I should be getting all the Vit D3 I need according to the "experts".

Have gotten regular blood work done every 6 months for the last 20 years (I'm 57 now) as preventive care (I pay for it myself out-of-pocket). Several years ago after reading that most adults over 50 had low Vit D3 levels I had mine checked. Yep, 18 was the number! 18 is low by any standard out there. To shorten the story, my numbers are now 55-60 and I take 7000 IU per DAY, plus I still work and play outdoors.

I've had several friends and co-workers check their levels and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM came in low 15-30.

Use yourself as a test subject. Get your blood work done, take a supplement, then have it checked again. That's the only way you'll ever know if ANY supplement actually gets into your system.

Cheers!
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