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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 3, 2016 - 07:09am PT
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Laws aside: Your thoughts.....
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Yaaaaaaar!
Oh boy tone... "wwhaja a ya doo!"
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dauwhe
Trad climber
Greenfield, MA
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A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I have visited nearly 60 countries in my climbing career and one thing stands out.....the US has vast public lands that are ADMINISTERED. A lot of other countries have set aside public lands but have not provided the money or people to make them more than just lines on a map.
I see more wildlife in America than anywhere else in the world except for a few game parks in Africa. I have floated the Grand Canyon for 280 PRISTINE miles. I can't imagine, considering the volume of people, that being the case anywhere else in the world.
We, as climbers, stand out when we pursue our activities on public lands. We also, as a group, have a stronger environmental ethic than most other user groups. It is our responsibility to be leaders in both respecting and supporting the fabulous public lands at our disposal.
I have put up many routes around the world and in 50 years have placed a total of 4 hand drilled bolts....all on serious alpine climbs. Wilderness areas offer plenty of opportunites to satisfy your FA needs without shattering the peaceful quiet of those sublime areas with the sound of a power drill
Edit: California stands out as a prime example. 39 million people yet there remains fabulous wilderness areas for all to enjoy, including, most importantly, the wonderful wild animals who live there.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Very well stated, Jim.
One or two idiots?? I've lost count.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Leave No Trace
Please
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Come on Kevin...apples and oranges.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Warbs, imagine using the same planning and process for a bolt as is used when deciding to install a trail structure...
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Burns gas and drills holes in rock faster than you can say Access Fund.
What's not to like?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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^the squeeze job I climbed two days ago disagrees. ^ easy to clip bolts on both lines from the left arete I led.
I agree with KT: excessive bolting is an inevitable outcome of power drilling.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sun is engaged in mental speculation.
Power drills and over bolting is already proven.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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When you guys figure this out, let me know. I would have to say last thing I would want to hear when I'm out in the middle of wilderness (beyond manicured trails) is power tools. I go there to get away from that stuff and LNT is my basic mantra.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Good post from Jim, and I see Warbler's point as well (though I agree that that is a completely separate issue).
Sun sounds like a spoiled 18 year old gym climber who expects to always get his way, either that or a troll.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I used a power drill once in a wilderness and ended up feeling bad about it. My partner and I got in a huge argument about whether to use it again to finish the route. It was a hard 5.11 / easy .12 backcountry rig and was taking a lot of time, hiking in and out and jugging and all that and we were wanting to wrap it up. Where I came down is that the point of wilderness is to provide a place to have those sorts of adventures, A place to push a little harder etc. if everyone used power equipment based on their own justifications then the spirit of the wilderness act gets gutted.
Anyway, we finished using a hand drill.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sun, me thinks you are projecting. But yea, no more new roads and no more new oil sounds fine to me.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I have done both hand drilling and power drilling in the wilderness....
Power drill dosent = rap bolting.
Hand drill dosen't = smart bolting.
Right now in California we have a ton of FAKE wilderness ..... due to political influences.
I'll use the PD in those spots when I wish to use one.
And if caught... I will suffer the fate.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I agree with Guy to a point re hand vs power. However, compare the number of bolts on older hand drilled rigs vs those where a power drill was used. Part of the distinction is who puts up the route. I understand Leclinski sometimes used a power drill on lead, though the limited amount of bolts he placed are the exception. Let's face it, if you need a decent stance (or edge for a hook) and 15-20 minutes to drill, that a big impediment. Whenever I've done a runout route in the Meadows and cant see the next bolt, I'll look to see where I would have gone to stand and drill and that's where I'd find the bolt. That's a fair example of the limits that the two methods create.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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I think hand drilling in Wilderness for FA's, but in situations where routes are aging and bolts need to be replaced, there should be a permit system for using a power drill, especially in heavily used areas like Yosemite and Josh. Don't trail crews use power drills for construction and repair? Here's another point: It takes almost no time to put in a bolt with a power drill, but in solid granite, the schlub is up there hammering away for 40 minutes (an estimate Todd Gordon gave me after I thanked him and Tucker et al. for all their work in rigging routes in JT--specifically Outer Siberia). Which is more intrusive on the "wilderness experience"? I'd argue the hand drilling.
BAd
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Hate to say it guys but Cailfornia is by far the most bolt happy state...most likely because it has so much slabby granite with few cracks. It's easy for me to go boltless because the climbing I prefer rarely needs them.
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