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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 3, 2016 - 07:09am PT
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Laws aside: Your thoughts.....
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Yaaaaaaar!
Oh boy tone... "wwhaja a ya doo!"
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dauwhe
Trad climber
Greenfield, MA
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A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I have visited nearly 60 countries in my climbing career and one thing stands out.....the US has vast public lands that are ADMINISTERED. A lot of other countries have set aside public lands but have not provided the money or people to make them more than just lines on a map.
I see more wildlife in America than anywhere else in the world except for a few game parks in Africa. I have floated the Grand Canyon for 280 PRISTINE miles. I can't imagine, considering the volume of people, that being the case anywhere else in the world.
We, as climbers, stand out when we pursue our activities on public lands. We also, as a group, have a stronger environmental ethic than most other user groups. It is our responsibility to be leaders in both respecting and supporting the fabulous public lands at our disposal.
I have put up many routes around the world and in 50 years have placed a total of 4 hand drilled bolts....all on serious alpine climbs. Wilderness areas offer plenty of opportunites to satisfy your FA needs without shattering the peaceful quiet of those sublime areas with the sound of a power drill
Edit: California stands out as a prime example. 39 million people yet there remains fabulous wilderness areas for all to enjoy, including, most importantly, the wonderful wild animals who live there.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Very well stated, Jim.
One or two idiots?? I've lost count.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Leave No Trace
Please
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Come on Kevin...apples and oranges.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Warbs, imagine using the same planning and process for a bolt as is used when deciding to install a trail structure...
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Burns gas and drills holes in rock faster than you can say Access Fund.
What's not to like?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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^the squeeze job I climbed two days ago disagrees. ^ easy to clip bolts on both lines from the left arete I led.
I agree with KT: excessive bolting is an inevitable outcome of power drilling.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sun is engaged in mental speculation.
Power drills and over bolting is already proven.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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When you guys figure this out, let me know. I would have to say last thing I would want to hear when I'm out in the middle of wilderness (beyond manicured trails) is power tools. I go there to get away from that stuff and LNT is my basic mantra.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Good post from Jim, and I see Warbler's point as well (though I agree that that is a completely separate issue).
Sun sounds like a spoiled 18 year old gym climber who expects to always get his way, either that or a troll.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I used a power drill once in a wilderness and ended up feeling bad about it. My partner and I got in a huge argument about whether to use it again to finish the route. It was a hard 5.11 / easy .12 backcountry rig and was taking a lot of time, hiking in and out and jugging and all that and we were wanting to wrap it up. Where I came down is that the point of wilderness is to provide a place to have those sorts of adventures, A place to push a little harder etc. if everyone used power equipment based on their own justifications then the spirit of the wilderness act gets gutted.
Anyway, we finished using a hand drill.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sun, me thinks you are projecting. But yea, no more new roads and no more new oil sounds fine to me.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I have done both hand drilling and power drilling in the wilderness....
Power drill dosent = rap bolting.
Hand drill dosen't = smart bolting.
Right now in California we have a ton of FAKE wilderness ..... due to political influences.
I'll use the PD in those spots when I wish to use one.
And if caught... I will suffer the fate.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I agree with Guy to a point re hand vs power. However, compare the number of bolts on older hand drilled rigs vs those where a power drill was used. Part of the distinction is who puts up the route. I understand Leclinski sometimes used a power drill on lead, though the limited amount of bolts he placed are the exception. Let's face it, if you need a decent stance (or edge for a hook) and 15-20 minutes to drill, that a big impediment. Whenever I've done a runout route in the Meadows and cant see the next bolt, I'll look to see where I would have gone to stand and drill and that's where I'd find the bolt. That's a fair example of the limits that the two methods create.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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I think hand drilling in Wilderness for FA's, but in situations where routes are aging and bolts need to be replaced, there should be a permit system for using a power drill, especially in heavily used areas like Yosemite and Josh. Don't trail crews use power drills for construction and repair? Here's another point: It takes almost no time to put in a bolt with a power drill, but in solid granite, the schlub is up there hammering away for 40 minutes (an estimate Todd Gordon gave me after I thanked him and Tucker et al. for all their work in rigging routes in JT--specifically Outer Siberia). Which is more intrusive on the "wilderness experience"? I'd argue the hand drilling.
BAd
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Hate to say it guys but Cailfornia is by far the most bolt happy state...most likely because it has so much slabby granite with few cracks. It's easy for me to go boltless because the climbing I prefer rarely needs them.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sun, you really are an idiot. Apparently, that is your religion. Enjoy!
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Bolts placed for life safety are a pretty big responsibility whether in the wilderness or not. An untrained power driller can place a lot of bolts in oversized holes in just one afternoon. I think it would be pretty hard to ream out the hole with a hand drill. I wonder if anyone here ever cleaned out the hole by running the drill in and out a couple of times or let it chatter at the bottom of the hole a couple of seconds. I know I did at work and got hollered at for it. Ever wonder why so many bolts out there have a bunch of threads showing? I know that I could commit a multitude of sin in about 5 seconds and no one would ever know unless the bolt failed or it was removed at some future point. Just my thoughts on this fine day :-)
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ManMountain
Mountain climber
San Diego
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I believe the USFS, BLM,and NPS use power tools to make trails in low angle Wilderness....
I believe not, though things may have changed since the seventies when I worked for BLM and USFS for ten years. Part of my job was trail maintenance and building a few new trails, and firefighting. On non-wilderness land, Bob's your uncle; chain saws, power drills, Tote-Goats, gasoline pumps, helicopters, 4x4s, Tracksters and more (even Tovex). On designated Wilderness land, no motorized equipment allowed, hand tools only, horse-mules-your feet for transportation, crosscut saws instead of chainsaws; you get the picture.
Oddly, the rules didn't piss us off. It was hourly pay so things just went a lot slower in Wilderness areas.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Power drill - another thing to make climbing less strenuous and challenging. Logical progression: electric winch for haul bags, power ascenders? The more you mechanize climbing the less challenging it becomes. Perhaps FAs could be graded on whether or not mechanized equipment was used.
Either way, mechanized stuff degrades a natural experience.
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couchmaster
climber
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I live in a glass house. I'm not tossing any rocks. Carry on. And on.
Edit - power drilling in "designated" or "official" wilderness? OK never done that.
In "The" wilderness. Lots. You don't need someone to tell you that you are in the wilderness. You'll know it cause it's way the F** beyond cars, cell phones, people, rescues, etc etc.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Bottom line...power drills are not allowed in Wilderness Areas and base jumping is not permitted in National Parks and people who flaunt those restrictions do everyone a disservice.
You don't usually change restrictions by openly disobeying them.
Snowmobilers and dirt bikers sometimes are caught in restricted areas on public lands and we applaud that. If we want other user groups who are not members of the "tribe" to behave we should do the same.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Once upon a time smoking weed was illegal in all 50. Driving over the posted speed limit is still illegal in all 50.
Did any of us ever ask on a forum for others' thoughts on breaking the above laws?
Now if I were to drill in a wilderness, would or need I ask anyone?
It seems you can break the law anytime you want and if you get caught, you pay those particular consequences de facto. Hence we see odorless e pipes and tinted glass or we see radar detectors and just maybe we have seen a Bosch Bulldog silencer?
Really, can one tell a hand drilled placement from a silenced power drilled placement?
Pots do call kettles black.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sounds reasonable Dingus as long as you don't try to skewer that snowmobiler roaring by you with the same reasonable disregard for regulations.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Donini,
I'll let the law officers do law enforcement and apprehension but I just may flip the finger at snow mobiler,
But I would not tackle Jim Buyer for running a permit needed river without a permit nor would I stalk you down for failing to register at Devils Tower.
Nor do I get reason to stalk when I hear drilling in the wilderness. Nor would I chase down an Interstate speeder or report a meth operation.
But I would help someone yelling for help when they were physically hurt or getting attacked..
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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kingnut,
please keep in mind I have not stated which laws I would break.
also please keep in mind those managers already have an idea that some will break the law.
As I say, you get caught you pay the consequences.
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ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
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good to see climbing discussion on these pages
for those who haven't read Appendix J of Sequoia / Kings Wilderness Stewardship read on:
full appendix linked here: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFile.cfm?projectID=33225&MIMEType=application%252Fpdf&filename=WSPFEIS%5FAppendix%5FJ%5FClimbingMgmt%2Epdf&sfid=206380
PUBLIC USE OF FIXED ANCHORS
Fixed anchors consist of webbing, bolts, pitons, chains, and other devices and equipment permanently or semi-permanently attached to rocks (or other natural features) that are left in place after the activity. These are, for the purposes of this strategy, divided into two categories: 1) permanent anchors (e.g., bolts), and 2) removable or abandoned (semi-permanent) anchors (e.g., slings with or without accompanying hardware such as carabiners).
NPS Director’s Order #41 (DO #41) establishes that “Authorization will be required for the placement of new fixed anchors or fixed equipment. Authorization may be required for the replacement or removal of existing fixed anchors or fixed equipment. The authorization process to be followed will be established at the park level and will be based on a consideration of resource issues (including the wilderness resource) and recreation opportunities. Authorization may be issued programmatically within the Wilderness Stewardship Plan or other activity-level plan, or specifically on a case-by-case basis, such as through a permit system.” And “If unacceptable impacts are occurring in wilderness as a result of climbing, the park superintendent may deem it necessary to restrict or prohibit the placement of fixed anchors.”
For the purposes of this strategy, those fixed anchors, both permanent and removable/abandoned, which are currently in place may remain.
Permanent fixed-anchors (e.g., bolts or pitons), may be placed, or replaced by individual climbers only with prior approval (see permit system below) or in the rare case of emergency. Existing bolts may be removed by individual climbers, without prior permission, if they are deemed unusable or unsafe. The climber should then communicate details of the removal to the parks (through the Chief Ranger’s Office).
Removable (or abandoned and semi-permanent) fixed-anchors (e.g., slings, nuts, or other clean climbing hardware) may be replaced or removed by individual climbers as necessary without prior approval. New semi-permanent rappel or retreat fixed-anchors may also be placed by individual climbers without prior approval, with the strong advisory to leave only the minimum necessary slings or hardware to safely descend or retreat from wilderness climbing routes, in order to keep wilderness climbing routes as free of abandoned slings and hardware as possible. The setting up of fixed-anchors for top-roping is strongly discouraged. When replacing existing slings or hardware, it is incumbent on the individual climber to carry old equipment out of wilderness and to dispose of it properly. Climbers are also strongly encouraged to remove any unsafe/unusable equipment from wilderness for proper disposal.
Appendix J
Climbing Management Strategy
J-7
Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks Wilderness Stewardship Plan/FEIS
New, bolt-intensive climbing routes (i.e., “sport climbs”) are not appropriate in wilderness and are expressly prohibited.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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I sometimes wish the laws were different but mostly respect them accept when I don't.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Maybe it's not so black and white. Donini's point is a valid one. But there are some wrinkles.
For example I could name a bunch of "designated wilderness" which simply isn't wilderness. In Joshua Tree there is "wilderness" less than 1/4 mile from the road out by Split Rock.
There's the "Domelands Wilderness". My blood pressure just went up thinking about this one. Before 1960 they logged the crap out of the place. Then in 1964 they declared the area wilderness. All of the old logging roads which climbers had used for years to access the many remote domes were closed. Domelands was, and would continue to be, a climber's paradise if it had remained BLM land, and it would be none the worse off for it. Have I used a Bosch in there? I'll leave it up to you to speculate.
That said I really prefer to hand drill, and that's what I've mostly done (other than for replacements where I'm on rap anyway). Messing around with that big power tool while climbing is friggin' scary. There's something sort of Zen about working the stance or wondering about that hook while you tap tap tap away.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sun....shine some light on what you mean by "religious fantasy rules."
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Rolfr
Trad climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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It seems pedantic to harp on mere procedure when so few people actually contribute to new route development with their own time, effort and money.
Building routes is 50% construction skills and 50% vision, a poorly constructed new route is still that, regardless if it was created with a hand or power drill.
I've been establishing new routes for over 40 years and the real questions should be "how best to mitigate environmental impact" Species at risk, sensitive habitat areas, cultural and recreational values are all equally at risk from hand or power drilling.
The vast majority of new route builders I have met, hand drilling or power drills are conscious and respectful of their impact, I doubt the availability of power drills will translate into a proliferation of grid bolting in the wilderness.
$700.00 for a hammerdrill and hundreds of dollars for hardware will probably be the biggest limiting factor.
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Rolfr
Trad climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Locker you Quack me up!
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Someones drillin fer buttcheeze with thur finger.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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The first step to preserve establishing new routes is to ban power drilling. The second will be to ban rap bolting.
Power Drilling leads to excessive bolting.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Power Drilling leads to excessive bolting
What are you? A self declared fourteen crack climber and there are too many bolts 4 you on the 5.8 you have chosen to warm up on?
What a crock of ...
Come out to WY and you can clip every other bolt on my routes -- maybe every third?
The second will be to ban rap bolting.
It seems you tradsters that bitch the most about sport climbing cannot climb shite anyway. So you will not try my route arguing it is overbolted?
Get the crap out of your pants -- maybe diapers would help?
I've been there, done that with trad routes. You do not bluff me.
You bastartds will not climb intermittent cracks because you can not get gear in just when you need it?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Rifle and AF are choss cliffs turned world class sport climbing destinations because of power drills.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Wilderness is under your house and out your front door. We might as well stop driving and using circular saws as well as head lamps
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Ain't giving up my circ saw or my chain saw.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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most people are mostly reasonable when handed a powerful tool designed to impose irrevocable change.
most of them, mostly.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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but maybe you could tell us precisely why power drills were necessary?
Because they exist and are legal.
No one would've f ucked with that choss if power drills were illegal there.
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mueffi 49
Trad climber
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If you want to know what powerdrills do to the rocks - go and visit the alps where you will find bolts placed right along perfect handcracks.
I left Europe 30 years ago exactly for that reason, in the meantime there have been probably 1 million bolts placed all over Europe - all with powerdrills.
Imagine the stovelegs and actually all of the Nose prepped with bolts, is that where we want to go?
I know that what happened over there cannot be reversed but at least we should think about that side of the coin.
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Stupid Merican
climber
Crankloon, OH
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Drill them all & let the Werner figure it out
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Then it becomes a grade 4 afternoon climb, 5 hours max.
It already is.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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At the least we should regulate the battery size to a four bolt placing capacity, similar to prop 63 here in California. Slow the capability and increase the weight of batteries packed in. ;)
Dingus, I would gladly clip every bolt on your routes. I think it would be wise to consider only hand drilling on any route establishment at some point. Carry on.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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OMG Bolts! On top of Angels Landing in Zion! There were actually two anchors next to each other (no clue what for but they were not rock climbing anchors). Some from this forum would have a heart attack if they saw it... Never mind the manufactured trail, chains for people to hold on to etc etc.
My opinion is that people get way too worked up over a few bolts that only are visible to rock climbers when on routes. Even to rock climbers on routes, at times it is hard to spot them, as they are not usually placed so closely on ground up free climbs.
I am against the legalization of power drills in the wilderness for the general public. Whoever is breaking rules can face consequences of getting caught. But I believe it would be great if it was allowed for ASCA to replace old bolt with a power drill with maybe some sort of sound barrier? As the bolts age there will be more and more of them to replace. At some point we will start seeing increase in the number of bolt failures and then, I believe, land managers could put some restrictions on rock climbing in such areas. Never know though, hope none of it will happen and enough volunteers are dedicating their time to serving the community.
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RyanD
climber
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Laws aside. I'm sure if there was Bosch's in the 60's nobody would have used them.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Laws aside. I'm sure if there was Bosch's in the 60's nobody would have used them.
Compressors
I am against the legalization of power drills in the wilderness for the general public. Whoever is breaking rules can face consequences of getting caught. But I believe it would be great if it was allowed for ASCA to replace old bolt with a power drill with maybe some sort of sound barrier? As the bolts age there will be more and more of them to replace. At some point we will start seeing increase in the number of bolt failures and then, I believe, land managers could put some restrictions on rock climbing in such areas. Never know though, hope none of it will happen and enough volunteers are dedicating their time to serving the community.
Eavesdropping V? The Pinnacles "volunteers" have hand replaced an insane number of bolts and it would be much safer to wait until they are in wheel chairs to change methods.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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You really don't believe the issue is noise pollution, right?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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e Pinnacles "volunteers" have hand replaced an insane number of bolts and it would be much safer to wait until they are in wheel chairs to change methods.
The pinnacles is a great place to dry tool, rock climbing meh. Pretty damn fun to clear sh#t rock with tools and crampons and hand drill from hooks or connected to a jammed ice tool in a tiny construction. Glad the place is so huge..
I agree with Warbler, hand drilling produces sound pollution for way longer. Boom boxes at crags along with crying babies and dogs are more annoying than power drills! Helicopter rescues from el cap etc should also be banned. Self rescue or die.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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pinnacles is a great place to dry tool
buahahaha
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Best in cali, that's for sure
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Me too. Would be too overwhelming! What to start from?! If I did, would be great to climb with you. Go out and do your thing, in the now. In the present time, there are too many distractions that are hard to avoid clicking on or reading about. This year I spent most of my time in the backcountry starting end of July and it was so great...was likely more enjoyable to live in an era before all the pollution.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
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Not a noise issue but perhaps a real estate issue? It's been touched on. Way more bolts way faster.....Anytime I see a face or slab climb longer then 6 pitches harder then 5.11c anywhere with 3/8" bolts done in a weekend, I'm assuming power drill no matter where..... Electric courage. The ability to hang on with one hand/hooks allows for more resource use. As you say Warbler, 15 seconds vs. 15 mins. That's a lot more ground in a lot less time. I'm not judging how folks climb. Still plenty of rock left in my lifetime for all to climb in whatever way they please but sport climb walls are going up in some nice places using electricity in the Wilderness with a capitol "W". It would be nice to have full disclosure of how routes were done (tools used etc.) when people post there grand adventures.....
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I believe the USFS, BLM,and NPS use power tools to make trails in low angle Wilderness....
Not true. I am a trail crew leader for 15 years on the NFS. We do not use power tools of any kind, not even wheelbarrows, without special permission related to safety issues, which are issued very infrequently (I only know of two instances in the Sierra in the last 15 years). Almost all such requests are turned down.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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You people just make this up out of your heads and irresponsibly display it as absolute truth and then make laws as your phony religion of "Climbing".
"Sun", you lose all credibility when you challenge known, proven climbers on this site, while definitively stating that the law (Wilderness Act) was passed because of "two people".
It was not, troll.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Don't trail crews use power drills for construction and repair?
Not on the USFS, not routinely.
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c wilmot
climber
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The NPS uses power tools in the wilderness. Yos uses them constantly. In fact its been the sole reason they have a decent trail system
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Power drilling is legal on USFS and BLM land, and I haven't witnessed what I'd call excessive bolting there. Most climbers appreciate bolts because they make climbing safer and more enjoyable. That said, I understand that bolts are offensive to some climbers also.
Not in deesignated wilderness.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The NPS uses power tools in the wilderness. Yos uses them constantly. In fact its been the sole reason they have a decent trail system
It's true the NPS (administered by a different agency than the USFS or BLM) does use power tools.
It is certainly not the reason that they have a good trail system. There are massive trail systems throughout the Sierra that were, and are, maintained by hand.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Ken M, how is that I see chain saw cuts through fallen trees in the wilderness in the Sierra if they only infrequently issue permits? How infrequently?
It's more common on FS land as cuts through roads, but I've packed in the Sierra wilderness and seen cuts, e.g. in Yosemite backcountry.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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It would be nice to have full disclosure of how routes were done (tools used etc.) when people post there grand adventures.....
Every sales pitch has some bullsh#t.
There are outright liars in the FFA certification of routes.
What a dream? The fruit of full disclosure is never in reach.
But I am content to find my way to the bottom of a sport bolted 6 pitch 5.11 climb that was put up over the weekend. How much more info do I need to sail or fail?
No FFA ers are your public data base. Live with that. We don't owe you data.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
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Ah Dingus....I don't really care that you don't care either for the routes themselves don't lie. Much like the art of differing painters, it would be nice to know so I can pick the style that suits me. I can usually tell a Higgins/Kamps from a Morris from a Worrall from a Skelton. Maybe even a Dingus Mcgee from a Todd Gordan? Just to simply save myself the hike......
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Fixed anchors;.....target practice....
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Respect the wilderness area boundaries.
the Forest Service generally does also with the guidance of the local Forest Supervisor.
and for those that doubt, that is straight from the mouth of the Uintah Forest Supervisor
acknowledge that Bob Kamps started federal regulation of climbing by seeking to get government to enforce his personal policy of anti-powerbolting. The result was national regulation, and reduced access.. whatever your opinion, fred flintstone or luke skywalker method, do not ask the feds to regulate.. we all lose in that situation.
and...
If you really care about the place where you climb, one designated trail, rather than multiple trails trampling vegetation and compacting soil, will make a real difference to the rabbit that lives there, and he will never notice, a bolt.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Hitch hiking is illigal in our national parks..
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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The best way to stop power drilling in the wilderness....This will do it;...(pretty much puts a stop to most everything....for a decade or so anyways...)..
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Climbers are responsible conservative individuals for the most part;...you can count on them to make good choices and ..pretty much....follow the rules...
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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dead on Todd!
reminds me of picking up at the Needles.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Someone must stop this drilling of holes in the rock;.....i think it's been going on for sometime now;.....(Maybe Trump will be able to stop this vandalism of our national treasures....)...
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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What ever happened to leave no trace?...
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Well ......
A little of both worlds
A huh the days that I had some juevos!.....
" when men could lift mountains and crush pebbles with their toes"
So we climbing Thursday? Hum? Anyone?
Crushing pebbles?
Jeff?
Marty?
No?
Richard?.... oh come on!
Tone?
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Drilling upside down. .. no stance no hook! Drilling the world
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Probably could of free climbed it...If my juevos weren't left behind under the previous Giant! But hey... sure is a pretty picture!
Hola Senor Gordon!
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Would of loved whipping on some...Nice shiny 2n'1/4s but only took wafer thins!
Yeah cowboy! Drill that shit!
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Peater
Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
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I watched Mike hand drill a good bolt on the lead from a stance that I could hardly unclip from.
Power drillers just go away for a while. Thanks.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I've omitted all the pornography but turned up the *FANCY GARBELBASE* to way past a safe volume
*What are you all? *
*Deaf?*
Vote for an Oligarch get an Oligarchy !
How' is it that a few bolts -well placed bolts, placed in a few minutes,
by modern means, any concern ?
Why struggle to get a shitty hole? Bosch da bitch,
Ry-Obie makes a great gas drill.. . .
. There is no good reason to hand drill . . . .it may be heroic, romantic
and an impressive show of strength .
Who cares How the bolt got there ?
Is it a solid anchor ? That's about all most climbers will care.
Are there three or four holes from prior bolts? That shows solid stone.
Are there off-round unsafe hand drilled holes?
That can be shown to exhibit why grandpa Kamps was so dead wrong?
I knew BK and talked to him about this. The way we went at it ! And in the Gunks!
Where bolts were also banned. And still are ;
unless you count the explosion of anchors for top ropes. . .
at the top of the first pitch of almost every climb!
I still feel that we should be able to use the most modern tools available, to protect climbs
so that the gear at least is as strong as possible
it is possible.
Who cares ? wilderness ? What's that grandpa?
I see a garbage can in the future for any place a women or a man goes?.....
the new climbers coming from the gym.? They for sure do not care.
They throw trash every where &. leave their dogs and girls
excrement where it was deposited.
Then complain when the stale air finds their nostrils, half an acre away, uphill.
In the home of ground up traditions on sight or back off climbing
They now have bolts fixed to every climb!
Who really cares is the sellers of gear. . . . .
Even a thousand bolts as that is the El Cap estimate,
That From some know nothing German brothers who were asked. . . .
Anyone have the Huber bros interview link?
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-may-open-up-arctic-drilling-2016-11
DRILL BABY DRILL !!
Trump to interview ExxonMobil CEO for secretary of state
Posted: Dec 06, 2016 3:03 PM EST
Updated: Dec 06, 2016 3:03 PM EST
By CNNMoney
NEW YORK -
The face of Big Oil could become America's top diplomat.
President-elect Donald Trump is interviewing ExxonMobil Chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson on Tuesday to consider him for the secretary of state position, according to one Trump aide.
Tillerson is considered a long shot for the most prestigious Cabinet role, but the Trump aide told CNN that the president-elect is intrigued by the oil man's view of the world.
Other leading contenders for secretary of state include Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani and David Petraeus.
Tillerson would be the latest multimillionaire to join Trump's cabinet and he could prove to be a controversial pick. Not only does Tillerson run the world's most valuable oil company at a time of serious concern about climate change, but the Exxon CEO also has ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In 2011, Exxon inked a deal with Russian oil giant Rosneft to provide access to lucrative oil resources in the Arctic. The agreement could be a point of contention if Tillerson is appointed, especially since Democrats and national security experts have accused the Trump camp of cozying up to Russia.
The Russian government is Rosneft's largest shareholder, and Putin attended the Exxon signing ceremony. In 2013, Putin awarded Tillerson the country's Order of Friendship.
Under Tillerson, Exxon is also grappling with legal scrutiny.
Last year, the New York Attorney General launched an investigation into whether Exxon withheld information about the risks of climate change. Both the SEC and NY AG are also probing Exxon's accounting methods, focusing on whether the company should have lowered the value of its oil and gas resources given the crash in energy prices.
Tillerson, 64, has served as the head of the Exxon oil empire since 2006. He will reach the company's mandatory retirement age of 65 in March and is expected to retire then.
Through the end of 2015, Tillerson has made more than $240 million as CEO, according to an analysis from board and executive data provider Equilar. That total includes his base salary, bonuses, stock awards and other compensation over 10 years.
Trump has made no secret of his desire to be friendly with the oil industry. The president-elect wants to unleash the country's natural resources by rolling back drilling regulations and drilling on federal lands.
"America's incredible energy potential remains untapped," Trump said in a May speech, adding that the problem is "totally self-inflected."
Trump, who ran for president as a populist outsider who promised to "drain the swamp" in Washington, has so far nominated other ultra-wealthy people for his cabinet.
Among the richest nominees so far are billionaires Wilbur Ross for secretary of commerce and Betsy DeVos for secretary of education.
Trump's pick for deputy secretary of commerce, Todd Ricketts, is the son of a billionaire and co-owns the Chicago Cubs. His would-be Treasury secretary is former Goldman Sachs banker and Hollywood bankroller Steven Mnuchin. Chief strategist Steve Bannon also worked as a Goldman Sachs banker before serving as chairman of Breitbart News.
Whether he goes to the Trump administration or not, ExxonMobil is poised to lose Tillerson at a critical time.
Feeling the effects of low oil prices, Exxon is currently facing a long slump. Its U.S. pumping business lost $477 million last quarter for its seventh consecutive quarter in the red.
Exxon has signaled that Tillerson's heir apparent is Darren Woods. The company promoted Woods, who leads Exxon's massive network of oil refineries and fuel terminals, to the position of president a year ago.
A full cut and paste from Montana
http://www.kxlf.com/story/33943757/trump-to-interview-exxonmobil-ceo-for-secretary-of-state
Do you mean like we and the Russians will Drill in the Arctic Wilderness?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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hand drill a good bolt on the lead from a stance
"I am only a inch in and already shaking"- by leader as bolt five was being placed, just before he down climbed to a rest, last weekend on a Pinns waterchute ;)
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Clinker, have you dry tooled at the pinnacles? If you have not, you are not using the park to its full potential. Putting up GU hand drill mixed routes there is the future of CA mixed.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Is mix... A fine line of aid?
Morning !
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Mix is mixed, and thus not free of what makes it mixed.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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G'morning!
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Ooh munge ..... complicated!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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I had coffee. Sorry. :)
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Picture Harding on the night-time last pitch of the Nose FA, dangling under the overhangs - with a power drill.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Vitaly, I have not dry tooled at Pinns. If you do, have you tried its success as a pickup line?
We stumbled across fairly solid rock this year for new routing, contrary to Pinnacles standard reputation.
Last weekend I was roped in to a project that Mountainyoung and JC had started in a seldom visited area of the High Peaks, it was more typical choss and got my attention. Fairly solid stances though and decently protected, so I can'i complain. A condor flew by within 20 feet of me placing bolt 8. Pretty cool day.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Re-install the compressor route!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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fairly solid rock this year for new routing, contrary to Pinnacles standard reputation
THAT is a pick up line.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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If your handle is Mungeclimber it is.
Lets do the math. Snowed out Sierra=Munge at Pinns?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 10, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
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rfshore and myles killin it! nice!
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