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WBraun
climber
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Yes ....
This IS the American way.
Completely Stupid.
Make America a prison camp and turn Americans into sterile mundane robots to be controlled and manipulated.
These fools are creating a climate/environment exactly the opposite of their goal of protecting .....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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JUST SAY
F U !
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I blame the millenials and Obama.
EDIT: non-robots step around and STFU. Wear dull colors and proceed as normal. kaaah-rist! baybeh.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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How is this to be enforced?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Drone surveilance...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Thanks for posting.
Email sent.
I can't believe that anyone in their right mind thinks this is actually a good way to manage public lands.
It's pure laziness of the parks dept.. "Oh let's just ban people from all off trail areas because 1% of them are sensitive".
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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These park managers are a$$holes. Like all beaurocracies, they've lost sight of their real responsibility and purpose.
I wonder if they're even needed really. I call 'em eco-nazis. Deal with them around here routinely.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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We are lucky that a huge amount of public land is under Federal control. California is a little better than many states. The real problem is budgets. States have to balance budgets, Feds don't. Wasn't it the state parks that were stashing millions of dollars a few years ago?
The Federal government actually subsidizes both commercial and recreational uses of Federal land. One size fits all is crazy. Comment sent.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
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Don't blame all the park managers.
Many of the individual park managers didn't even know this had been proposed, and may not agree with it for their own preserves, such as in Anza-Borrego. And they have no idea how they would enforce it, esp in some of the large preserves.
For example, on March 10, Red Rock Canyon State Park posted on their facebook page:
"The Ricardo Campground has 50 first come, first served campsites perfect for tent camping out of a car. The park is 27,000 acres and all of it is available for open hiking except for Nightmare Gulch which is closed to all access until July 1st."
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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EDIT: non-robots step around and STFU. Wear dull colors and proceed as normal.
+1
feralfae
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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The real problem is budgets. States have to balance budgets, Feds don't.
What'ya mean???
JTree's abundant income spreads out to keep armed guards in front of lots of states' treasures with one hand out waiting for money, one hand holding a ticketbook and and pen, all the while their eyes are poised on their uzzies. Same with Yo se mite.
i'd call that federal spending.
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Is there a list or map of California reserves and preserves anywhere ?
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Pete_N
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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I dislike being told what I can or cannot do as much as anyone, and these kinds of regulations concerning "public" lands definitely raise my hackles. What looks like a lazy "just keep 'em all out" approach would be particularly egregious. However, there are some considerations that temper my own knee-jerk response to this proposal:
some public lands are experiencing increasing rates of use and correspondingly higher impacts (eg erosion, trash, graffiti, damage to cultural or historic artifacts, wildlife disturbance)
funding, as others have pointed out, that might support a more nuanced management approach is abysmal
particularly sensitive areas included in these preserves/reserves (so designated because of the vulnerable and/or rare nature of these attributes) may not be compatible at all with public access
A thoughtful, measured response to this crude proposal is more likely to be taken seriously than a "f you" here.
[edited to add:]
I started writing a letter in protest and, frankly, I'm struggling to think of a persuasive rational for not prohibiting public off-trail access to these areas. Let's think this through...what ideas do others have? In no particular order (and uncertain just how convincing these might be):
1. While some areas are likely to be incompatible with public access, this proposal abolishes reasonable and sustainable access and use of less sensitive areas included in these protected areas.
2. We need more public access to wild areas, not less. Sure, there are far more lands that would still provide for access than what would be closed through this amendment, but people need to experience these special areas too.
3. I would rather see increased efforts towards public education about how to experience these areas in a manner that is consistent with their protection, than this blanket prohibition.
4. Please identify those areas that really are incompatible with unfettered public access; some may allow for limited access (eg via boardwalks or on a seasonal basis), while others may not allow for any.
Note that Public Resources Code, Section 5003 states that, "The department shall administer, protect, develop, and interpret the property under its jurisdiction for the use and enjoyment of the public."
Other ideas?
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Good. Now go inside and stay there.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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This plan has Centers For Biological Diversity written all over it. Would not be surprised to find out they are the ones pushing it behind the scenes.
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jstan
climber
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Fifty years ago many of the Adirondack peaks were trailess and the state was tearing down lean-tos in an attempt to "spread out" usage. Fact is there were braided trails on most of the peaks. The state simply did not grasp what the future had in store for us. I thought it much more useful to harden areas in a subtle way so places could be used by the inevitable large numbers, with out looking like a battle zone. Since "trails" would be the easiest way to get around most would choose to use a trail. The numbers of those not using a trail would hopefully be small enough and people would be educated enough not to need regulation.
I have been accused of being naive. I may have been.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Proposed Amendment to replace repealed CCR Section 4325, Title 14, Chapter 1 Section 4325 Off trail restrictions-Preserves and Reserves
(a) No person shall leave designated trails, board walks or other designated routes of travel in Natural Preserves, Cultural Preserves, State Cultural Reserves, or State Natural Reserves within the California State Park System, unless approved by the Department.
(b) Section (a) shall not restrict Department employees or their agents for the purpose of management, such as research, enforcement, rescue, or educational programs.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 5003 and 5008, Public Resources Code. Reference: Sections 5003, 5008, 5019.50, 5019.65, 5019.71, and 5019.74. Public Resources Code
not sure how these categories are defined, but if you look for the words "reserve" and "preserve" you come up with:
Natural Preserves
Ahjumawi Lava Springs State Park, Anza-Borrego Desert State Park, Arthur B. Ripley Desert Woodland State Park, Bidwell-Sacramento River State Park, Big Basin Redwoods State Park, Caswell Memorial State Park, Chino Hills State Park, Cuyamaca Rancho State Park, Del Norte Coast Redwoods State Park, Delta Meadows, Emeryville Crescent State Marine Reserve, Estero Bluffs State Park, The Forest of Nisene Marks State Park, Garrapata State Park, Great Valley Grasslands State Park, Harmony Headlands State Park, Hearst San Simeon State Park, Hendy Woods State Park, Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Van Damme State Park, Benicia State Recreation Area, Reynolds Wayside Campground
Cultural Preserves
Anderson Marsh State Historic Park, Bodie State Historic Park, Chumash Painted Cave State Historic Park, El Presidio de Santa Barbara State Historic Park
State Cultural Reserves
State Natural Reserves
Albany State Marine Reserve, Antelope Valley California Poppy Reserve, Armstrong Redwoods, Azalea, Caspar Headlands, John B. Dewitt Redwoods, John Little, Jug Handle, Kruse Rhododendron, Los Osos Oaks, Mailliard Woods, Mono Lake Tufa, Montgomery Woods, Point Lobos, Smithe Redwoods, Torrey Pines, Tule Elk
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_state_parks);
don't recognize any climbing venues in that list...
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Natural Preserves, Cultural Preserves, State Cultural Reserves, and State Natural Reserves within the California State Park System
Overreaching ban or overacting posters?
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Nothing worse than an over actor
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