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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I'm not familiar with most of those places, but closing Anza Borrego to cross country hiking seems like a bit much.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Having done a bit of research on this, I, too, would have a hard time justifying "open traffic" in some of these areas. The first job of the employees in these areas is, I think, to protect and preserve these special areas. Maybe they all need to be closed for ten years until restoration, protection, and new ways of handling human impact can be instituted.
So, maybe instead of yelling, I might volunteer to help with new trail building, improved signage, or some other way to counteract the problems of increasing encroachment by human use.
I think I sometimes forget that conservation means protection and sustaining what is there. Of all the land that is available for walking, maybe some of it does need to be closed until we find better ways to route visitors and better ways to save what needs to be saved, too.
This needs more discussion with people who are working to save special places. And perhaps they need more help from the public. Sounds as though they are making, in some instances, last-ditch efforts to preserve what is already in designated special areas. So I guess the questions I need to ask myself, even if not for California, is how does this affect me and how can I help?
It is, after all, our land, our resources, and our treasures that need protecting.
The mosquitoes are arriving in Fairbanks.
feralfae
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So why is it not a problem in the national parks? Are the California state
park people smarter or quicker to recognize a problem? Methinks not.
Bureaucrats love to invent problems to avoid having to actually do what
they're hired to do. Can you say 'Williamson Rock'?
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jonnyrig
climber
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Wait.... you mean the hippies are trampling the precious mother Earth to death? How ironic.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Marcus McCoy from somewhere over the rainbow...
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I do what I want!
As f*#ked as it sounds, it kinda makes sense, in a weird sort of way....if you take your beliefs to a dogmatic level ...
Preserve....utilize......preserve.... Enjoy.... Preserve....lock away entirely....
Ohh the conflicts!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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blue state problems.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Another stab at Ed's analysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:California_State_Reserves
Within that I see Point Dume, which historically has rock climbing too. I haven't been there yet and it's on my list of places to go. Does a published climbing route count as a "trail"?
Anza-Borrego has extensive off-road driving opportunities in the washes, which provide great access to scrambling adventures that are not roped climbing (too loose) but still great ways to explore nature. Think canyoneering in pure mud slot canyons. The idea that the minimal human use of such places would be a factor is laughable when the whole area is a kitty litter-box that is reshaped by water during periodic deluges.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Some rangers are clueless.
One time, near Soda Lake, a ranger saw my portaledge in a campsite, and started talking about climbing. He said he was 100% against the use of climbing cams, because they wear grooves in the rock. He said he had seen those holes, with grooves, that the climbing cams had made. He said it should be illegal to use climbing cams on public lands.
He'd never heard of bongs and angles.
He just assumed that the aluminum cam lobes wore deep grooves into the granite cracks.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Natural Preserves
Ahjumawi Lava Springs State Park, Anza-Borrego Desert State Park, Arthur B. Ripley Desert Woodland State Park, Bidwell-Sacramento River State Park, Big Basin Redwoods State Park, Caswell Memorial State Park, Chino Hills State Park, Cuyamaca Rancho State Park, Del Norte Coast Redwoods State Park, Delta Meadows, Emeryville Crescent State Marine Reserve, Estero Bluffs State Park, The Forest of Nisene Marks State Park, Garrapata State Park, Great Valley Grasslands State Park, Harmony Headlands State Park, Hearst San Simeon State Park, Hendy Woods State Park, Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Van Damme State Park, Benicia State Recreation Area, Reynolds Wayside Campground Cultural Preserves
Funny, Ed, that I don't see Castle Rock State Park on this list. I seem to remember that the CRSP Management Plan specifically allowed for "free roaming" in the Natural Preserve west of the main area. This was enacted in 2001, but do the local authorities at Castle Rock actually talk to State Parks in Sacto? I'd rather doubt it!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I can understand the perspective of a ranger against such defacement if they have seen Boy Scout Rocks at Mt Diablo. Deep grooves worn in the rock by folks who rig top-ropes far back from the edge instead of extending them.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega
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Having spent a lot of time working on access in state parks lately, I'll offer just a couple thoughts on this proposed rule:
The individual Parks/reserves/preserves are well aware of their resources and are already doing a pretty good job of letting the public know what areas are sensitive and should not be entered. Case in point is the trails at Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve here in Sonoma County. Its pretty darn obvious that you aren't supposed to leave the path.
I see this new rule as an extension of the "Transformation" of the parks into a more revenue generating entity that receives "funding" directly from the public instead of from our tax dollars. There are many steps being taken state wide to increase revenue by charging new day use fees and increasing law enforcement. Writing tickets is certainly a method of revenue generation. By passing rules like this, there will be mechanisms in place that can be used to cite visitors who are not following the "rules."
I believe this blanket rule, regarding off trail use in preserves and reserves, will affect climbers less than other groups like nature photographers, artists, and people who prefer being on wild land rather than develped trails. The amount of climbing in most of these locations is rather limited from what I can tell, with the exception of Anza Borrego and a few other areas. Each park and reserve needs to set their own rules based on the specific needs of that resource, but they currently have jurisdiction to cite people for entering closed areas. So this rule seems to be redundant and over reaching.
As an avid user and supporter of our state parks, I am not an obstructionist to the obvious need for funding. Our parks are part of the critical infrastructure of California. They help drive the economy in so many ways and are integral to the California lifestyle. Sacramento needs to fund the parks from the General Fund rather than cutting them off to fend for themselves. Compared to the ma$$ive amounts of money being earmarked for bullet trains and delta tunnel projects, the ~$500 million needed for annual funding our parks is just a drop in the bucket.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Some of the bouldering in Culp Valley in Anza Borrego is targeted for closure.
Ed, that list is apparently incomplete. One of the issues here is working out exactly what reserves are where. There may well be other access areas lost under this plan, too. Anyone who climbs or hikes or camps or does anything at any California State Park ought to go through the maps as carefully as they can to learn where closures are likely. Please note that I'm not making any argument as to the reasonableness of closures. It'd just be good to figure out wtf we are looking at here.
For instance, this CSP map proposes closing the Culp Valley Cultural Preserve (not on Ed's Wiki list):
http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/21299/files/anza_culp_valley_map.pdf
If you compare that map with the one on MountainProject, you can see which of the boulders would be out of bounds under the new plan:
https://www.mountainproject.com/scripts/AreaMap?id=106116317
I haven't boulder Culp in ages, and I was never a local, and I'm not sure if any of my favorite camping areas there will also get closed (although it looks like one will). So I'm not even advocating for or against even this particular closure. But the reason we're all struggling here is because CSP doesn't have a list of cultural, historic and natural preserves on its webpage, much less maps of them. So we're all kind of pissing in the dark, trusting to WIkipedia or whatever.
I think San Diego Climbers Alliance and the Anza Borrego Foundation are both involved at this point. Not sure about other areas.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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People are f*#king dumb and or don't care nothing is too obvious
Its pretty darn obvious that you aren't supposed to leave the path.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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There are definitely groups that don't want any visitors entering State Park 'Nature Preserves' unless accompanied by a docent after receiving permission from the Park Superintendent. Bet it's very difficult to patrol an area as large as Castle Rock State Park, so enforcement - if such a thing is feasible - would be very, very spotty and arbitrary. This proposed new rule could be used, however, to keep climbers and boulderers out of certain areas the State or local authorities didn't want them to visit.
Dunno if Boy Scout Rocks with the offending grooves cut in the sandstone by ropes is on a 'Nature Preserve' within Mt Diablo State Park. Anyone can visit Boy Scout Rock I'd say.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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It is obvious that certain areas should restrict human traffic to protect the balance. However, a blanket rule is so dumb it invites violation.
Sensible rules that everyone can agree on don't necessarily require management resources.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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thanks, zbrown. that PDF link won't show up on my desktop, probably because of OS/browser issues. works fine on my newer laptop.
it doesn't resolve to a level that allows one to see the relevant preserve borders. i guess you have to go to each individual state park. for the two i checked, the basic map didn't include the boundaries either, i had to go to the management plan.
i'm not a socal local anymore, but if i were, i'd be going over the management plans for the cuyamaca, malibu and anza borrego SPs with some care.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Well, very close to home there are the Silver Strand NP and Tijuana Estuary NP.
The Silver Strand is actually the Navy Seal base and the Tijuana Estuary has sufficient trails to see pretty much evrything.
Up at Idyllwild there are the Hidden Divide NP and Mount San Jacinto SW.
Like klk says you need more maps to see details.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Email sent. Blanket rules are idiotic, and the park service needs to be told so. I'm not worried about climbing. I'm worried about freedom. If the area has some particular sensitivities, ok. But one-size-fits-all policies result in kids who DRAW a gun being expelled from school. Frikin' morons.
BAd
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