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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:42am PT
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I have been a Taco Stander since 2005, a climber since 1969.
I am a self-confessed unabashed liberal, but I listen to people of other persuasions (even my older brothers, those that are remaining with us, just one now), as long as they are not fanatics or extremists.
I come to the forum to see what I have been missing as a climber, and enjoy a decent discourse.
I hung out in Yosemite in the mid-1970s, I climbed and argued with people, around campfires and such.
I am, for the first time in my life, suffering from depression, loneliness and sadness. Bouldering on the beach helps, as does walking with a great puppy, Aggie, and meeting people walking their dogs, and seeing them (dogs that is) romping in the surf.
The love of my life Jennie, is in a nursing home (Korsakoff’s Syndrome, dementia), 64 is too young in my opinion. But she is, so I am told by social workers (I do not trust), that she is happy and content in the home).
That makes me happy and glad, but that is my conundrum, she is safe and secure, and yet I want her by my side. I never, ever mistreated her, she is my angel. I was her carer for years. She is the best.
But she does not want to see me. November 5, Wednesday, 2014, we were lying in bed, “I love you immensely Patrick.”
And then she was gone.
So I come to the Taco Stand to read TRs, people’s views, great photos (Jody, you missed your calling).
Okay. I do not agree with The Chief or Jody (to name a few), sometimes they annoy me, but that is their privilege. We live in a free society (even in Ireland, hah hah).
I have been a journalist for over 44 years in five countries, interviewed presidents and prime ministers (Maggie, Number Ten Downing Street, August 1989, what a pain, but I came out alive, she was one tough cookie), captains of industry, celebrities, and best of all, regular “normal” people.
But some of the vitriol and spite by some people on this forum, and the name calling, and..., what a turn off, yet I believe Supertopo is the best climbing forum out there.
But do I need to hear somebody accusing another poster (by name) of being a “murderous special ops” or words to that effect?
I am not a lawyer, but I know slander and libel, heck I should as a journalist. How did such an accusation as that, especially aimed at an experienced mountaineer, who may have his faults or may not, slip through.
We are Taco Standers, Supertopians, yeah we spat, but let’s not carry it further. We should be civilized.
And, no tears please, I have enough of those myself, I miss Jennie big time, and the Taco Stand is an outlet.
Let’s be friends that agree to disagree.
And please, let Jennie know I love her. Dementia sucks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 09:01am PT
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You're a good man, Paddy.
The mountain of my dreams, and some nightmares, yesterday...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 09:09am PT
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I am told to move on, get over it, she is gone, in the social workers' words, happy in a nursing home.
I am told by the Samaritans, by my GPs, by my counselor, by friends, my landlord, by cousins and friends in the States, by everyone… move on.
It is not so easy. I grieve and I miss Jennie.
Climbing helps though bouldering and the rock on the hands, and the feet slipping (hey, I am not 20 anymore). Jennie would watch me climb and was afraid.
I am afraid for her, for her future, but… she wants a cat in the nursing home, it will not happen, I think, maybe…
Now, please, no negativity on the forum, reality, yes, I can deal with that, I think.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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I just want to climb, be it boulders, outcrops or Ama Dablam. And I want to see jennie.
And, I may be a runt, hah hah, but if you Taco Standers do not behave, I'll be there to…
All the little money I have is going into dementia research.
Dementia will affect us all at some stage, do not kid yourselves, be it your parents, or your loved one or you. Let's work to find solutions. One of my cousins (I have so many) is a well-respected doctor of psychology in Los Angeles, I asked her, "let's tackle this" if we can put a human on the moon or spends trillions on wars, let's tackle cancer and dementia.
Who knows, Jennie may climb the Nose someday (okay, that is stretching it).
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:00am PT
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Warm thoughts headed your way, Patrick.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:00am PT
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I'm willing to engage you on this, Patrick, but I wasn't earlier going to say anything because what's to say, really, if this isn't part of my own experience?
I've experienced the loss of my wife who was my missus only seven short years and it took several to come to terms with this loss.
You may not EVER experience a slackening of your bitterness, your feeling of being helpless, and you may be full of self-pity the rest of your life, but that's only if you continue in this same rut (which is bound to get deeper until something changes).
Several of the ST posters might admit to the same sort of sentiment. We won't know unless they post.
But I noticed this on jstan's "Interests" thread:
from jgill--
Oh my, still having problems with those V1s are we?
Keep trying, and try not to be so negative.
;>)
from thebravecowboy--
"Healthy, open citizen deliberation, particularly between those most apparently diametrically opposed, is a worthy and ideal interest.
It is one of those apparently insurmountable objectives that some good people seek.
Like picking trash in the desert,
like fighting to minimize abuse and neglect of those dear human beings stricken with dementia.
Like jamming cracks on new towers."
So, you're not alone in your grieving because some of us are grieving for YOU, Patrick. You don't deserve this, you haven't earned it, and yet, there it is...the black dog.
I can only pray and wish you well.
Keep what faith you have...you may still need it.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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Best of luck Patrick. The black dog is no fun..
I hope you find something worth living for my friend.
Mike
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:22am PT
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Well...At least Craig's full of positivity. :-/
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:34am PT
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Is it possible to console Patrick without picking on each other perhaps? ;)
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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Hey Patrick,
You have the option to hang around with real people where you are? Positive types.. Even though I'm no fan of crowds, being around positive people in any kind of entertaining pursuit/hobby can make an enormous difference in my own outlook on life...
Forums are ok, but the mask provided leads some to murder with words when they would never otherwise act that way in person.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:49am PT
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Politicizing a personal thread guys..... Personal attacks to boot.
Really??
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 12, 2015 - 10:55am PT
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Welcome to the ALL ABOUT CRAIG FRY THREAD.
Learn how to elicit sympathy with soaked diapers.
Talk about LEFT FIELD!
For once you and I see eye to eye, Big Mike. :0)
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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I'm just reading into Patrick's dilemma
seems to be about a certain group of posters
that are on the Political threads
Okay. I do not agree with The Chief or Jody (to name a few), sometimes they annoy me,
But some of the vitriol and spite by some people on this forum, and the name calling, and..., what a turn off,
But do I need to hear somebody accusing another poster (by name) of being a “murderous special ops” or words to that effect?
I am not a lawyer, but I know slander and libel,
and BTW, you guys really suck, I guess I know who my friends are, Not you!
I like people that don't attack others with vile negativity or libel slander.
Which seems to be the same problem as Patrick has.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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Paddy, old boy, you're a gem. Sorry about Jennie, but life throws us curveballs (you know baseball rhetoric).
I'm kinda battling some depression too, and it sucks. Climbing and just getting up and out really f*#king helps!
Dwelling on people who you perceive to be negative will only drive you deeper into the abyss of depression. Sure, some might actually be legit as#@&%es, but why let that trouble you?
Illegitimi Non Corborundum. Don't let people rule your moods and life, LIVE your life on your terms, my brother from across the pond.
Keep up the beach bouldering, sounds f*#king fun!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:06am PT
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Patrick - So sorry to hear about the mental decline of your wife and it's impact on you. Sometimes life just sucks.
The vitriol around here ebbs and flows. The moderators seem set on minimal intervention. If you're gonna read the political threads, just expect a fair amount of crap. It's the usual suspects. And it's not too hard to simply look past their posts. You'll still be able to follow the thread.
The trip reports and climbing threads still offer good reading.
All the best in navigating through your current issues.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:06am PT
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I wish you the best Patrick and I really feel for you. While some have used this site to just "vent", it seems you have been posting up threads to try to clarify your own thoughts on Jennie.
It seems as if you already know the answer to your problem, you just have to accept it. So I suppose the real question might be what conditions would allow you to accept this answer, and how do you go about getting to those conditions. Perhaps an independent assessment of Jennie and of the facility Jennie is staying in? Only you will know, but let me say that it also seems that you are still in the greiving process and it will take time to work through this. Don't forget to give yourself some time.
Peace be with you
Chris
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:13am PT
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We are Taco Standers, Supertopians, yeah we spat, but let’s not carry it further. We should be civilized.
100%
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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My heartfelt condolences and support for you in a difficult difficult time.
I can't help but try to suggest some things that may help, but take what I say with a grain of salt.
There wil, always be conflict which leads to negativity. Hopefully not ont his thread though. Conflict is exciting and engaging while agreement is pleasant but boring. So conflict drives threads, movies, literature, world affairs, etc. try not to get sucked into it though, because as mentioned it often leads to negativity.
Yes you know it but time will help. Every day week month will be a little better. There will be setbacks but it will get better with time.
Try to get over the loss, but don't get over your good times with her. Hold them in you heart. All my friends that have had break ups only got over them when they began a relationship with someone new.. Granted this is different and you may never replace a soulmate. My grandfather died and my grandmother remarried and was happy. And that helped. But her first husband was the love of her life and that's okay.
Do all the things you are supposed to do even if its just at a minimum. Have a regular sleep cycle, 11pm to 7 am or so. If you can't sleep though take an afternoon nap, but get up and go to bed at the same time. Eat mostly healthy. Get excersicse, at least an outdoor walk for 15 minuts plus everyday.
I really don't know what healthiest for you relationship. Maybe see her without her knowing you are there once a week? Move back to Cal and move on? I'd say talk to a professional about that. I don't think seeing her and making her upset is good for either of you but I really don't know.
Hang in there.
P.s. forgive my screwy touch device typing.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 11:27am PT
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Mouse from Merced
"I've experienced the loss of my wife who was my missus only seven short years and it took several to come to terms with this loss."
Gosh that sounds like what I am going through, but I am such the eejit, I do not think I will ever comes to terms wiht it.
People tell me to move on, but how do you do that?
My GP Mary, a great physician, says I am going throug a sort of bereavement and it usually takes people two years or so.
I just want Jennie back in my life.
I gave up my Day Skipper lessons and a week ice climbing in Scotland and two weeks in the Alps to look after her. And I would do that a thousand times over. I never mentioned it to her as I was told that is not a smart thing to do, but I wonder if she knew, she must have.
I never laid guilt trips on her, I am sure I didn't, I hope I didn't. Gosh, I hope I didn't.
I love her so much, but she is gone, and I will probably never get her back in my life.
I hate dementia, I really do. I hate dementia with a passion. Does she even remember me? Well, I am told she asks about me, somewhat indifferently though. She asks if I am working, if I am healthy, if I am okay.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 11:36am PT
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Patrick, she will always remember you, as you do her. You are in her heart, her soul, and her mind. You have left an indelible imprint into her life.
That is something to be proud of, not depressed about. Stop beating yourself up over this. You loved and lived, and Jennie still loves ya, bro.
Rock on, Paddy!
(did you really get to meet the 'Iron Lady', Maggie Thatcher?)
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