How our attention is drawn away from Citizen's United

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NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 23, 2015 - 09:34am PT
I just started and deleted a thread with same initial content... but for me the topic is too important to hide in a joke title that most folks who want to avoid politics will just ignore. So labeling more correctly in the title here.

Original title: "Coffee Talk Conspiracy Theories Part 1: Climate Change"

OK, it's not what you think. I'm not trying to say climate change is a hoax. But, might it be getting more press for nefarious reasons? Might the seemingly ridiculous Republican naysayers actually be harnessed by a greater evil genius? And might the press be covering the strident support that affirms climate change is real, because it is a smoke screen for something uglier?

Consider this conspiracy theory: what if "the powers that be" need to keep the liberals busy with an important issue to keep attention away from the consolidation of power and shifting of laws that reinforce it? I don't see a groundswell of grassroots liberals consolidating to fight Citizen's United, or to get a constitutional amendment on campaign finance that protects our representative government from the influences of corporations and rich individuals whose interests do not match the large majority of our citizens.

Remember the scene from Manchurian Candidate when Angela Lansbury is saying something to the effect of "we don't want them questioning whether there are or are not communists, we want them questioning HOW MANY communists there are?" Framing topics, redirection, to achieve a goal.

Here we have the key defenders of society's values embroiled in debates on climate change, keystone pipelines, the resurging threat to abortion rights, gay rights... and too little attention is left for campaign finance reform and combatting the consolidation of power and securing of laws that will make it impossible to wrest it back.

Ultimately all those other battles will be easier to win when we secure a government that actually represents the interests of individuals. But in focusing on these battles we are ignoring the key battle that decides the war.


There.

Talk amongst yourselves.

Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Aug 23, 2015 - 09:42am PT
Wanna voice? Quit bitching and start a corporation. The poor shall be neither seen nor heard.

Welcome to the new paradigm. We will all one day bow to the corporate overlords, or starve in the streets.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Aug 23, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Keep the Liberals busy.

Who are the plastic people?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 23, 2015 - 09:51am PT
100% of the problem has been brought to us by Conservative Republicans
The SCOTUS are in bed with the Koch brothers and the Tea Party.

it's all about the new Corporate America with huge profits going to the top, and the trickle down of sh#t for the middle class and everyone else that isn't rich enough to enjoy the rigged system.

Voting for Republicans or Libertarians is the Problem, someone voted for this because, these people are so conned that they have no idea what they voted for.

And don't tell me that both sides do it, The Democrats are the only ones trying to undo Citizens United and to enforce strict campaign reform, NOT The Republicans, they want More money, not lees.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 23, 2015 - 09:59am PT
A really unfortunate decision of the Supreme Court.....not what democracy is about.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2015 - 10:25am PT
I'm fine with political threads that focus attention on issues that don't get enough airtime, but will have a dominant affect on our lives and our children's lives.

Apathy is one way to handle it, certainly a way I have followed most of my life, but I've got too much life left and I care about the world I will leave for my children.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 23, 2015 - 10:38am PT
Enjoy being included in the Members Who Delete Posts thread list.

;)
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 23, 2015 - 10:47am PT
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 23, 2015 - 10:52am PT
Thank God we are still a Republic (kinda sorta) and the 1st Amend hasn't been completely PC'd... yet.

Some things just never change around here do they. Mean while, Millions of real poor people are walking, running and even crawling hundreds and thousands of miles to come to America so they can get a real job in "Corporate infested America". All to have a far better life than anything that they have in their native countries. When they get here, they do everything they can to stay and work their asses off for "Corporate infested America" in this totally fked up country of ours. Pretty stupid of all them millions and millions that have done so aint it....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:06am PT
After the nation’s founding, corporations were granted charters by the state as they are today. Unlike today, however, corporations were only permitted to exist 20 or 30 years and could only deal in one commodity, could not hold stock in other companies, and their property holdings were limited to what they needed to accomplish their business goals. And perhaps the most important facet of all this is that most states in the early days of the nation had laws on the books that made any political contribution by corporations a criminal offense.

Jefferson said,

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Jefferson, one of the most prominent founding fathers, also said this in 1816,

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

John Adams also had an opinion.

“Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.”

Lincoln wrote,

“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood … It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:15am PT
Why do republicans hate the Government so much?
Because it's the only thing keeping their overloads from making us all slaves in over polluted world that they own.

They also hate democracy, that's why they have to rig elections to win, fight with despicable propaganda and have fake news media to sell the dupes these lies..

They invest billions, but in their minds it's money well spent, they have made trillions through this small investment.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:17am PT
Why do * hate the Government so much?

Gee Craig Fry, when's the last time you asked an Elder Native American that question?



PSSSSST Craig Fry, EVERY Native I know within 15 miles of my home, four in my little neighborhood here just below a major Paiute burial ground, owns lots and lots of guns. AND, not ONE of em trust the.... here it comes, Government. Most aamof "hate" the government and abide ONLY by the laws and rules of their Nation.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:24am PT
Why do republicans hate the Government so much?


why do democrats hate the work so much
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:24am PT
The Chief wrote
Some things just never change around here do they. Mean while, Millions of real poor people are walking, running and even crawling hundreds and thousands of miles to come to America so they can get a real job in "Corporate infested America". All to have a far better life than anything that they have in their native countries. When they get here, they do everything they can to stay and work their asses off for "Corporate infested America" in this totally fked up country of ours. Pretty stupid of all them millions and millions that have done so aint it....

Remember when we used to be a great country.
Oh well, I guess better than Mexico is good enough.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:28am PT
Remember when we used to be a great country.


When were we "Greater" than we are today... Gumby?

Please be specific.


Oh wait, maybe under Truman, JFK or LBJ in the 50's or 60's... or ... Do I need to post up all the constant rioting and burning of cities throughout our nation photos during those days.


I know, when Andrew Johnson took over after Lincoln and wanted to ensure all the Freed Slaves, 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese-Americans and Native's were kept under strict control and were disallowed any previ's of the a normal US citizen, including the 1st, 2nd and 15th Amends.


Hey Gumby, you ever heard of the "Red Legs", who they worked for and what they did back in later part of 1860's after the their tenure in the Civil War under the orders of President Andrew Johnson (D).

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:45am PT
We were greater when we didn't fight illegitimate wars for oil.

We were greater when we welcomed those millions that wanted to join us rather than try to criminalize them.

We were greater when we didn't require the middle class to work multiple jobs to support a family.

We were greater when someone like the Donald would be laughed out of town on the crazy train.

We were greater when education was affordable.

We were greater when we didn't have the highest incarceration rate of any major country (and 2nd highest of ANY country).

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:47am PT
We were greater when we didn't fight illegitimate wars for oil.

We were greater when we welcomed those millions that wanted to join us rather than try to criminalize them.

We were greater when we didn't require the middle class to work multiple jobs to support a family.

We were greater when someone like the Donald would be laughed out of town on the crazy train.

We were greater when education was affordable.

We were greater when we didn't have the highest incarceration rate of any major country (and 2nd highest of ANY country).

Got some dates/time frames for all these supposed wonderful days above...


We were greater when someone like the Donald would be laughed out of town on the crazy train.

Ever heard of this dude Gumby (The FIRST true Democratic President btw)? What he did to any NON-CITIZEN's (including ALL Natives) makes what Donald talks about look like Capt Kangaroo compared to the leader of ISIS:



And allow me to post some more facts. Under Andrew Johnson, a Democrat btw, these dudes began. All were, oh shet, Democrats.

The Ku Klux Klan (KKK), or simply "the Klan", is the name of three distinct past and present movements in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration, historically expressed through terrorism.[6] The first organization sought to overthrow the Republican state governments in the South during the Reconstruction Era, especially by violence against African American leaders. It ended about 1871.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

The reason it ended? This dude:



We were greater when education was affordable.

My Pop (BTW he died at 86 four years ago) finished paying off his College "Student" Loan from 1952-1957 in 1979.

Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
Good political thread Scott. Thanks for the adjustment.


It occurred to me today that a huge majority of the population is being manipulated by PR & Propoganda.

It becomes vital that everyone become educated on the exact rules, laws, axioms, etc of marketing, PR, and propaganda in order to live in a sane world and protect ourselves from manipulation.

Some tips to protect yourself an others:

1. If it is alarming or sets you off: Where is the message coming from.

2. Who said it: examine them closely.

3. Why are they saying it? Who will benefit?

4. If it wont go away, it contains a lie. Spot the lie.

5. Point out the lie, the money trail, who is really saying it, why they are saying it. If you are correct, it goes away.



The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
Will someone here, including you Savage, please post when there was an election in this country where any of which is being posted above, NEVER prevailed. It's gonna be interesting to see the facts of history.


Good points btw Savage.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy
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