Muir Wall A2 5.9

 
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El Capitan


Yosemite Valley, California USA


Trip Report
The Kid Flunks Grade VI; Photo Essay
Wednesday November 7, 2012 10:53am

-Me and the Protection


-A Junk Show in the MAking


-Doug leading pitch 3


-Me sewing up pitch 4


-Top of pitch 4; Tom Evans Photo - www.elcapreport.com


-Rocking out at the top of Pitch 5


-Leading pitch 6


-Anchor for our first bivy



-Doug at the first bivy; Top of pitch 7

...Day Two...


-Far End Hauling kit to 10 while Doug cleans. Tom Evans Photo, www.elcapreport.com


-Doug starting up pitch 10: Heart Ledges to Mamamoth Terraces


-Bivy II; Mammoth Terraces


...Day 3...


-Relaxing after short fixing 6 pitches through the night.


-Toms view of our rest day the top of 20.

...Day 4....
*Bonus VIDEO*




-Doug cleaning pitch 22


-Doug leading pitch 24


-Me and the junk show at the top of 23


-Doug at the top of 24

Credit: Mike Bolte
-We're the speck of light of the left


-The pigs at belay 26
Credit: thekidcormier
FU FU!
FU FU!
Credit: thekidcormier




  Trip Report Views: 11,229
thekidcormier
About the Author
thekidcormier is a light weight trad climber wannabe from squamish,b.c, who does alot of aid climbing because he gets scared above his gear.

He's been known for calling his mommy from hard routes then bailing.

http://thekidcormier.blogspot.com/

Comments
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Comment on this Trip Report
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:05am PT
You still writing it?? Cool pics man!
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:10am PT
No writing, just pictures
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:12am PT
sweet TR and pics man!

hopefully you're still uploading pics as I'm curious how the the rest of your wall went.

cheers!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:20am PT
Story, story!!!
MH2

climber
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:33am PT
Congratulations on a great VI and thanks for the pictures.
eKat

Trad climber
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:34am PT
VERY NICE!

TFPU!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:38am PT
That anchor looks sweet!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 7, 2012 - 11:38am PT
No writing, just pictures

probably a good move. Your spelling sucks.

Cool shots, keep em' coming.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
  Nov 7, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
Doug looks possessed! No way is he going down!
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
  Nov 7, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
Beautiful, can't wait!
eKat

Trad climber
  Nov 7, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
I will add. . . your first two photos say it all, for me!

:-)
snakefoot

climber
cali
  Nov 7, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
finally gettin on the big stone, good for you.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
  Nov 7, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
go get 'em kid! ya hoser!

what route is that? nopantsben thinks Muir Wall? any other wall folks care to opine?
RP3

Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
  Nov 7, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
I cant wait for Act II!
Tami

Social climber
Canada
  Nov 7, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
Hahaha!!! How come ya look like yer 12 years old in that first pic :-D
HAHAAH!!!!
Yey fer Luke ! Usin' the FARCE !
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 7, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
Dude this tale is an epic!! It must be told!!
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
  Nov 7, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
Cinnamon sez you rock!
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Nov 7, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
Looks great! I wanna see more!
gf

climber
  Nov 7, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
Nice! -when you coming riding with us old guys there junior? maybe friday?
TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 7, 2012 - 05:21pm PT
Climbing Friday Saturday!
briham89

Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
  Nov 7, 2012 - 05:24pm PT
Nice. More pictures please!!!!!!! I wanna hear this epic ending
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 7, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
Cool Luke looking forward to the rest of the tale.

slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
  Nov 7, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
love it Luke!-let it be known this man is a climbing machine.

Doug
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 7, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
Who needs a belay on Saturday, or would like to go for a hike and pick up some garbage, and possibly remove some graffiti?
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
  Nov 7, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
Nice kid, your bivy anchor looks sketch.......;)
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
  Nov 7, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
Nice potentially expanding exfoliation flake there!
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 7, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
Day Two photos added.

Every one like my bivy anchor, I thought we were gonna die for sure!

Nopantsbens comment seems to have disappeared, but he was right Muir Wall it is.

Tami: that joke is SOO 20th century.

Greg: Thanks for the invite but we got a super bad ass climbing objective planned for this weekend. Next time.

Anders: sorry, not available(see above).

PArt three real soon
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 7, 2012 - 10:15pm PT
Right on, Kid. I can dig it.
Carry on.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 7, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
Congrats on grade 6 Kid!!!

Stick with it - Grade 12 is gonna be totally out of this world!

(funny, how come I didn't get to do the Muir in grade 6? Bloody low achiever socialist bastards)
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 7, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
Bwha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 8, 2012 - 12:27am PT
Can't wait for the next episode. Same bat time, same bat channel I assume.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 8, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
Nice photos Luke, I thought u told me that u had your Grade 10?!

-Hey this thing looks long as hell, how many nights u spend? Do ppl do this thing in a day often?
Prod

Trad climber
  Nov 8, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
NICE WORK.

Keep them coming.

Prod.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
  Nov 8, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
You got me hooked (or at least tied in) waiting for the rest. Please keep 'em coming!

John
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 8, 2012 - 08:46pm PT
More pictures WEEEEOOOO!

I'm heading up the wall in the morning with kieran and nate(a.k.a. Browniephoto and thesoloclimber)!!

Our plan is to climb Zorros Last Ride(V 5.8) A3+) into Lost at Sea(III 5.8 A3+). As far as we know Lost at Sea has only had 1 repeat attempt and that was by me and fishboy.

AND. we're gonna do a LIVE trip report!
couchmaster

climber
  Nov 8, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
Well wishes and send it in style...and have fun!
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
  Nov 8, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
Sweet! live feed...
TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 9, 2012 - 01:11am PT
Oh sh#t. The pre spray. Last time there was too much prespray, someone in our party fell 60 feet. Thanks Luke!
On the upside, maple syrup has gone down in price.
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:02am PT
Cool stuff Luke keep it coming.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:28am PT
Luke, we'll try to get some photos of you from the road on Friday afternoon, and Sunday if you're still there and the p'terodactyls haven't eaten you. The afternoon lighting at this time of year can be quite nice.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 9, 2012 - 10:12am PT
Sweet. Thanks anders.

Ryan I took 6 days of effort. As far as I know it's only been done in a day once by Chris Mac,and super hans.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 9, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
The kid says he will tell the epic tale when he gets 100 comments.. This thing has 1200 views so that shouldn't be too hard! Post up for an epic people!!
RP3

Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
  Nov 9, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
NICE JOB! The Muir sure is long! Those upper corners are some of the most spectacular climbing I have ever done. Congrats on the send!
turd

climber
  Nov 9, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
I think you haven't gotten more comments because most people are intimidated by a guy that climbs harder than them who doesn't have to shave yet.


Awesome TR.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 9, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
Kid, you really do look like you're 16 years old. WTF is up with that ;-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
Mark- he is!!! ;)
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
i've found the youth fountain
moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
Kid, you are too old to show your junk to everybody!

Otherwise, not bad, not at all...

TFPU!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 9, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
Fountain of youth=eternal stoke??
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 9, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
story bump
Andrew Barnes

Ice climber
Albany, NY
  Nov 9, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
Great photos.
If the top of the route is like that picture of pitch 24, it must be an amazing section of the wall.
briham89

Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
  Nov 13, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
Want to hear the end of the climb story bump
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 13, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
leading pitch 25
leading pitch 25
Credit: thekidcormier
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 13, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
Sick pic Luke! Post up people! Only 45 more comments to epic time!!
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 13, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
Now I'm confused.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 13, 2012 - 04:59pm PT



Big Mike

Trad climber
BC

Nov 9, 2012 - 10:38am PT
The kid says he will tell the epic tale when he gets 100 comments.. This thing has 1200 views so that shouldn't be too hard! Post up for an epic people!!

gf

climber
  Nov 13, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
epicing bump
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 13, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
Well, I'm not that confused anymore(well, aboot that, anyway). Thanks, Big Mike! :-)

portent

Social climber
your mom's house
  Nov 13, 2012 - 09:04pm PT
TELL THE TALE!!!!!!!!!! Awesome TR man...
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
  Nov 13, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
Bump for the full monty.
Enthusiast

Sport climber
Port Townsend WA
  Nov 13, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
Looks like an awesome trip!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:01am PT
Spill the beans, Kid, bump.
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
you
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
are
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
gonna
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
finish
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
this
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
godam
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
TR
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
whether
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
you
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
like
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
it
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
or
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
not
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
ya
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
poop
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
tossing
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
sandbaggin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
superlite
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
pretendtobe
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
hardman
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
partner-ditchin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
pirate
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
stinkin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
sportclimbin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
topropin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
supertopo posting
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
pissdrinkin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
syrupslurpin
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
scaredycat
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
nogood
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
stickclipping
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
crackaddicted
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
It all looks so gloriously sunny and fun. Hard to believe it turned into winter while you were still up there.
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
touron
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
farting
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
hoser.
browniephoto

climber
bc
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
so......

where's the rest of the story??
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 14, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
LOL!

Kiernan, yer killin me.

come on, Kid, let er rip.

nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
  Nov 14, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
Extortion trip report bump
MH2

climber
  Nov 14, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
Didn't think it would happen. Good job.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 14, 2012 - 08:43pm PT
Yeah! WTF?? We need (need) the rest of the story!
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
  Nov 15, 2012 - 01:08am PT
smoke em if you've got em
WBraun

climber
  Nov 15, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
I don't think he really wants to tell the rest of the story here.

I think he really wishes that story disappears.

But I know the full story and it's not good ............
WBraun

climber
  Nov 15, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
Bump
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 15, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Werner you're too funny. :)
Brian Norris

Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
  Nov 16, 2012 - 02:30am PT
Very impressive, Kid. A picture tells a thousand words and the smiles tell a thousand more. No words are needed. Great Trip Report. Great climb. I had a feeling you were going to do this. Congratulations. And to Brownie: Very, very clever...
Andrew Barnes

Ice climber
Albany, NY
  Nov 16, 2012 - 03:03am PT
As long as they are alive and uninjured the story of the last two pitches cannot be too bad.

What I see is a great trip report on a fantastic climb, two climbers working hard over 6 days for this ascent, and having a great time in the process.

I wouldn't worry about the vicarious armchair theorists passing judgement on anything that may have happened on the last two pitches (I've no idea what could have taken place). Great trip report, should be an inspiration to others who may be considering the Muir Wall; probably a good alternative to the crowding on the Nose, Salathe, 3D.
Borut

Mountain climber
Ljubljana, Slovenia
  Nov 16, 2012 - 03:10am PT
TFPU

Borut
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 16, 2012 - 03:19am PT
Beware Luke. of the strength of the Dark Side to sway young men's hearts.

I know, that's sooo retro, but dammit Kid, you're Light. And I mean that in a good way.
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
  Nov 16, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
Another plea for telling the story. Would love to hear it from both sides. Also respect it if both sides decide to keep if offline of course.

We all f up - whatever happened, it's less about who's fault it was and more about what both sides learned.
SofCookay

climber
  Nov 16, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
The truth shall set you free bump.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 16, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
A couple of well known Squamish / BC climbers once had a total epic on the last pitches of the Shield in full wet snow conditions. Survival mode can result in damn near anything. Survival is preferred.
WBraun

climber
  Nov 16, 2012 - 05:35pm PT
The rest of this missing story should be told.

This trip report is so incomplete it's terrible.

There were some extremely serious of life threatening events that unfolded in the end both to his partner and the rescue personal that were needed due to Luke's inexperience.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
  Nov 16, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
Yo... interesting climb and some cool photos. The last day is commented on in the ElCap Report... here is the link.

http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-102312

The team did well on the climb in some bad heat that turned into bad cold in the end.... typical yosemite weather!! Thanks for posting the trip report.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 16, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
From the nps website:



Subscribe | What is RSS
Date: October 23, 2012
High Angle Rescue of Stranded Climber in Snow Storm Successful

Yosemite National Park Rangers and Search and Rescue Personnel completed a high angle, high risk rescue on El Capitan, in Yosemite Valley, on Monday, October 22, 2012, in which a stranded Canadian climber was at risk for hypothermia. The summit of El Capitan, 7,569 feet above sea level, is the largest granite monolith in the world. This Yosemite icon attracts rock climbers from across the globe.

Two rock climbers began ascending a climbing route, known as the Muir Wall, on El Capitan on Monday, October 14, 2012. The party was due to reach the top of the climb on Sunday night, October 21, just before a large storm, with several inches of snow, was predicted. The lead climber, a 24-year old male from Ontario, Canada, reached the summit just before midnight on Sunday night. The second climber, a 40-year old male from British Columbia, Canada, was forced to spend the night approximately 230 feet below the summit due to impending bad weather and a stuck climbing rope.

At approximately 2:00 a.m. on Monday, October 22, the 40-year old climber attempted to deploy a rainfly over his portaledge (a hanging tent system designed for rock climbers to spend the night on a rock wall) to provide shelter from the rain/snow. However, during his attempt he slipped out of his portaledge and fell approximately 15 feet down the face of the rock. He was able to ascend his rope and secure himself back to the portaledge, but was unable to properly erect the rainfly. During the night, the area received approximately four to six inches of snow with nighttime temperatures in the mid-twenties.

Yosemite Park Rangers were notified of the possible hypothermic climber midday on Monday, October 22. Due to unfavorable weather, the park could not secure a helicopter to assist in the rescue and instead deployed ground teams to respond. Park Rangers Aaron Smith and Ben Doyle, and Search and Rescue Crew Member Matt Othmer immediately hiked to the summit of El Capitan to rescue the climber. Snow, wind, and ice slowed rescue attempts and personnel reached the summit at approximately 4:00 p.m. The team rigged anchors and immediately began lowering Park Ranger Smith approximately 230 feet to the climber. Upon arrival, Smith found the climber to be suffering from exhaustion and mild hypothermia. Smith attached ropes to the climber, and then ascended the ropes back to the summit. Using a mechanical advantage system of pulleys, the team was then able to hoist the climber to the summit.

After warming the climber, the team descended back to Yosemite Valley via hiking and rappelling, and reached the Valley floor at approximately 10:00 p.m.

The climber was transported to a local hospital and is in good condition.


Oh & where in the hell did u guys leave Relic? He seems to have vanished??

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 16, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
Naw naw he's just lurking I guess.. Texted me the other day..


Slodog- I want to apologize for anything I've said that was out of line. I realize that climbing is a partner sport and you need to consider what is best for the team, and certainly understand how you felt left behind.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 16, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
The summit of El Capitan, 7,569 feet above sea level, is the largest granite monolith in the world.

OMG - will this idiocy ever go away? And this from NPS?

what? Mt Dickey doesn't rate? How about Makalu? Denali? Great Cathedral, Trango....

I wonder if this stupid statement has made it into Wikipedia or Britannica? or is it just the some old recycled brochure from NPS for the past 100 years?

Thats almost as bad as claiming squamish as the outdoor recreation capital of canada
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
  Nov 16, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
Damn, wow. That NPS report doesn't sound good.

Sometimes it's better to tell the story yourself than have someone else tell it for you.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
Added a couple more pics of the events leading up to the shameful finish.


Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 16, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
Changed it. Talked to Doug via pm.
WBraun

climber
  Nov 16, 2012 - 08:36pm PT
I want to hear Doug's side.

I want to hear Luke's full side.

Why did you leave out the part where you abandoned your partner in this TR?
MH2

climber
  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
Werner,

Luke already covered some of that briefly:

"I've been beating myself up all day about whether I did the right thing leaving him there to fend for himself. Although we had all the equipment to theoretically survive a storm, it was certainly not on my list of super cool things to do."
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
First of all this Trip Report, although mainly a photo essay, is about a MY experience on the wall, MY decisions, and MY report card. So inevitable criticism should be directed towards ME and MY mistakes...

Upon reaching the top of the climb I was extremely scared, impatient and frustrated. I ran into some technical difficulties, the kind of technical difficulties that real climbers find solutions to and overcome.

Instead of figuring out a way to solve said problems, I took the cowardly way out and fled the scene. Abandoning my partner and our kit. Invalidating the Ascent completely.

The Kid Failed grade VI.

See ya next year El Cap.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
Here's one of the boys during happier times. The arrow indicates their position.

Lightman Relic

WBraun

climber
  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:46pm PT
Thanks Luke ......
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 16, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
That's ok Luke, whats done is done. Don't let the ballbisters get to you. Its impossible for you or anyone else to look back & make a difference in what actually happened.

Maybe you should move on y'know, start sport climbing or lo ball bouldering exclusively. Usually the lighter you are, the better you are at it, so you might be a natural- trust me there is still lots of aid involved & you could do it in the snow or set up your portaledge at pet wall in the rain if u really need some unnecessary suffering.. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 16, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
Chalk it up to Experience & move on, Kid. Seriously.
Dude, you got to live ON El Cap for a while. I imagine we'll see you there again.
There it is. Glorious. And nobody's dead. Bonus.

See you up there!
TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 16, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
For What It's Worth, Luke has been my mainly regular climbing partner for this past year. It was through him that I had my first wall experience, where he demonstrated his aptitude for aiding (at least compared to myself and our other friend) and spending another ~two days with him on the wall last weekend, he showed me again how far he has come since our first wall together.
We all make mistakes. Before this climbing season started, everyone on here just knew me as the sketchy climber who likes to show off, take unnecessary risks, and started soloing before I'd 'paid my dues' or whatever. I like to think that is no longer the case with the people I climb with, and I've learned a lot about myself this past year.

I'm sure the same can be said for Luke. When sh#t hits the fan, it's a natural instinct to go into survival, every man for himself mode. I've been there too, although in a completely different type of scenario. I learned from it.

I guess I'm just trying to say that Luke is a good guy. I enjoy climbing with him. We've had some great adventures together, been in some sketchy situations together, and been in over our heads more times than I can count. We've learned something new every time.
As far as the situation here goes, at least everyone involved is still alive. It sounds like Luke has kicked his own ass enough to know where he f*#ked up and he knows what to change for next time.
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:52am PT
Rock on Luke I'm too drunk to read this sh#t but bumps for Luke and lets see some shots from the top.

Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 17, 2012 - 02:04am PT
Luke and Doug, thanks for telling your stories. You guys are real. You help us all learn something and really enrich the content here.

I would do a wall with either of you guys in a heartbeat.
Relic

Social climber
Weenie
  Nov 17, 2012 - 02:58am PT
I'M HERE RYAND! OVER HERE!








lurking a lil.
Fish Boy

Social climber
Squeamish
  Nov 17, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
Sh#t man, stop being hard on yourself! You climbed El Cap and I'm jealous of ya. I thought you were jumping in over your head before you went, but you got up it due to your obvious skills, huge determination during insufferable conditions (I'm remembering your snowy night lead last year which I wanted no part of), and your irrepressible passion and "stoke" for doing things to the max. Three qualities that will lead you toward even bigger dreams and goals for the rest of your life.

You have the attributes of a skilled adventurer, things that can't always be learnt, and perhaps this is a wake up call about how hard it can be to balance your own drive and passion against being a little more conservative and thoughtful.

I know you made those decisions on your last night with no intent for harm, you just wanted to survive, and no one should criticize you for that. I'm guessing that you didn't feel like there was many options to take once you were in that position. That's were a little foresight can pay off, before it's too late.

Chin up bro, you totally climbed that huge rock, bask in the glory of that, mate!

Nick
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
There but for the grace of god go I
Fish Boy

Social climber
Squeamish
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
Sums it up Bruce.

We should be grateful we weren't in a similar position.
WBraun

climber
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
What if Doug became unconscious on his fall out of his porta-ledge?

With stuck rope one can always down jumar to where it's stuck.

There were multiply scenarios available to fix the problem without the need to abandon ones partner.

Also I believe Luke waited until the afternoon of the next day before even getting help?

By this time the storm had arrived and was in full force.

Had this been reported first light or the night he came down it would have been much easier to solve.

Doug could have died in this whole fiasco.

Seems like some of the people here are taking it like it's no big deal .....

Fish Boy

Social climber
Squeamish
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
It's a big deal, but I'm sure your words aren't falling on deaf ears Werner.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 17, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
Seems like some of the people here are taking it like it's no big deal .....

It could seem that way, but it seems to me that the two guys that were involved realize what went wrong. Maybe.

Your YOSAR perspective is an important one, Werner. After all at some point this climb involved more people than just Luke and Doug.

I think the feeling here is from friends that want us all to learn from this without being overly harsh about human mistakes.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Nov 17, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
First of all this Trip Report, although mainly a photo essay, is about a MY experience on the wall, MY decisions, and MY report card. So inevitable criticism should be directed towards ME and MY mistakes...

Upon reaching the top of the climb I was extremely scared, impatient and frustrated. I ran into some technical difficulties, the kind of technical difficulties that real climbers find solutions to and overcome.

Instead of figuring out a way to solve said problems, I took the cowardly way out and fled the scene. Abandoning my partner and our kit. Invalidating the Ascent completely.

Well sh#t, you left out some important details in your trip report!! LOL Not the first time I see this crap. There was a TR last year on summitpost in which another young lady forgot to mention getting a ride back from INYO SAR in a chopper. According to the report it was a first solo badass descent. Didn't look as bad-ass when the SAR crew members posted a few comments.

If you will post a TR, at least give an honest report please.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 17, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
It's too bad this report didn't get the telling it deserved. It has so many facets! Bears, rockfall, doubt, overcoming adversity on the wall, finding practical solutions to technical issues, block tactics.... The rescue is just the part at the end! I sent Doug a pm yesterday. I seriously hope that he decides to tell his side.


Relic

Social climber
Weenie
  Nov 17, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
Werner, why are you laying blame solely on Luke? Doug made the decision to try and weather out the storm instead of jugging up and bailing. I don't have the wall experience to lay judgement, but I do know that both men made their own decisions.
gf

climber
  Nov 17, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
Werner in his own way is helping to encourage "truth and reconciliation" around a regrettable and likely avoidable incident that could have resulted in a climbers' death in addition to putting rescuers in harms way. Discussions like this shouldn't be about dumping on those involved, but they are necessary and may even save a life in the future.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 17, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
The Canadian Avalanche Association publishes a book that chronicles and examines avalanche accidents with critiques of causative factors and possible corrective measures

http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/store/books


The last time I read an Accidents in North American Mountaineering it provided similar summaries. The CAA publication makes a point of leaving out identifying individuals involved. If I recall correctly, the ANAM often provided similarly unidentifying information and critiques, but also occasionally identified individuals involved. I always wondered why they felt this was necessary.

One good thing about these publications was that the analysis is conducted generally by professionals, after all pertinent information and evidence is gathered, and presented as dispassionately as possible. Greg and many others are right in pointing out the benefit of learning and sharing from mistakes. Still, whats the hurry? If it was me I'd take my time and gather all I need before coming to conclusions, especially when it comes to judging yourself!

While thats happening I bet there's a ton more crazier epics we can all read and learn from in the ANAM and the AAC!
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
  Nov 18, 2012 - 12:07am PT
Excellent TR!
This appears to have all the necessary ingredients to qualify as a big wall epic complete with bad weather, personality conflicts and egregious errors in judgement.
I'm reminded of one of my first attempts on El Cap where we completely blew the program and scorched the late great Walter Rosenthal's fixed ropes in our ignominious retreat. The most powerful experience was Walter's gracious patience with us, a lesson that still resonates today.
As a SAR volunteer I'm particularly appreciative of Werner's perspective.
Thankfully, unlike many climbing epics, there's been no loss of life here, maybe just some loss of face.
I suggest what's most important is not the mistakes we make but our willingness to be personally accountable and learn from experience.
Luke's a straight up guy and runs with a good crew.
I expect he and his partner are both feeling schooled by The Captain (as many of us have been) and that this saga will become an important part of their personal narrative be that infamy, legend or both.

Peace
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
  Nov 17, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Werner in his own way is helping to encourage "truth and
reconciliation"

Another view would be that in his own way he's kind of being an as#@&%e.
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
  Nov 17, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
I know I'd probably be a salty dog after years in the SAR game like Werner (not judgin' ya Werner). I feel it is important to hear both sides of the story to gain some transparency on the situation. My first thought was "WTF why didn't the partner just jug out?". Or "why didn't Luke clean on rappel to free the stuck rope?". Without small nuances like these we won't be able to learn from each others mistake. And for what it's worth although we "know" Luke and his partner we don't really know them at all. They're names on a screen and strangers in a picture who should feel no shame or fear of being judged. We are hear to support, learn, and grow from one another's experiences.

So please tell your story!
WBraun

climber
  Nov 17, 2012 - 08:38pm PT
"why didn't the partner just jug out?"
From my understanding, he couldn't, contrary to what people are thinking here.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 17, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
The reason I posted photos chronologically leaving the dirt until the end was so that everyone, except Werner, could appreciate the great time we had on the wall until I selfishly fled.



Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 17, 2012 - 09:05pm PT
In case I was too circumspect in my message, I'll ask this - is it that we really want to learn from this? Or is it just some some good old dirt we want?

If its learning you want there's already tons - TONS - of wildly varied authentic case studies out there, documented and published. The whole story of this may come out but I'd say leave that up to Luke and his partner, or anyone else who was directly involved. Luke certainly hasn't hidden anything and if he's inclined to leave it like that for now whats it to ya? Either way its not like we have some sort of "right to know" or anything.
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
  Nov 17, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
Luke certainly hasn't hidden anything and if he's inclined to leave it like that for now whats it to ya?

I mean no disrespect by my previous response. I simply want to understand the situation better. With this I hope to learn and maybe add one more lesson to my bag of tricks for getting myself out of situations. What pitch was this on? The supertopo labeled 30th combined with the 31st? Or 31st combined with 32nd?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 17, 2012 - 10:50pm PT
Bruce Kay & Chiefs last posts were awesome. Luke was kind enough to share at all when many would have taken this whole story, buried it somewhere real deep & never spoke of it again. Bruce's line "right to know" kinda sums it up for me. We should be happy he shared his awesome photos & that him & Doug are both ok. So what if he's really a soft ass bolt clipper stuck in an Aid climbers body, at least he's out there climbing, following his dreams, learning from his mistakes & doing his best, then coming back home & sharing his experience with us which I appreciate & think is pretty cool- for an anorexic boulderer that is:-)
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 18, 2012 - 02:21am PT
Thank you, Luke, for posting as you did.
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 18, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
In hindsight I'm sure both parties would do some things differently but ALL critics should remember they were not there and so are basing their armchair opinions on limited information.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Nov 18, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
when many would have taken this whole story, buried it somewhere real deep & never spoke of it again.

I would rather do that, than spray about climbing El Cap without giving out at least a Thank You note to the SAR crew. When someone does not mention such a crucial detail in their TR it makes the whole thing seem dishonest.
Luke seems like a good guy and I am sure he did not think something terrible could happen to his partner. Personally, I am not judging him for his actions up there- I was not in his shoes and can't judge. But PLEASE give honest reports if you are putting them out here. SAR crew put own lives on the line for his partner up there, and not even a word about those guys...come on!
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 19, 2012 - 09:24am PT
Thanks for an honest opinion Vitality. If not including every detail is dishonest, then so be it.

However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work. With no intended disrespect, the people at YOSAR appeared to be extremely skilled at what their profession, but it was evident that they plan every move precisely, without endangering anybody in the process.

EDIT: Yes they do deserve a thank you and my apologies. Thank you YOSAR and I'm sorry.
WBraun

climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:15am PT
far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work.

They were actually short of man power at that time.

Nobody really wanted to go on thing to begin with in those bad conditions.

You're out of your mind and just as I felt my gut feeling about you pertaining to this whole thing.

You've never done one these fuked up incidents in weather like that.

You really are out of your mind .....
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 19, 2012 - 01:16am PT
Well Werner, you're obviously justa twitching to tell the tale yourself.... whats holding you back - Global Warming?
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
  Nov 19, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
Omg Luke I can't believe you said this ...
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work. With no intended disrespect

Dude you personally manufactured a situation that was dangerous for everyone involved but yourself.

And you are still trying to walk away from it.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 19, 2012 - 02:21am PT
Global warming is holding us all back Bruce.

But really, how much more is there to tell? Luke has been pretty candid on here, on the Cali thread both Doug & Luke told their stories. Werner provided some important details already, although now he's kinda being a little rough. Luke thanked and apologized to everyone he needed to. Anything more on this story might be picking scabs on what is a photo TR of a big ass route with photos of both partners having a good time & probably the memories they both want to remember most.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
  Nov 19, 2012 - 02:31am PT

From the other thread...


slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada

Oct 28, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
Relic and Big Mike,glad you had a great trip-

Luke-i was going as fast as i could up there,to make it sound like i was making no effort to keep up is just not true.i dont want what happened to ruin an otherwise great climb.i was still haulling the previous linked pitchs when you announced you were leaving in ten minutes from 2 pitchs above-after asking me to tag you the lead line witch was my anchor.had you have waited at p 30 rather than racing off we would have finished together with the gear before the storm hit.as it was-with 2 traversing pitchs to clean-a haul to finish and a stuck tag line-i felt it better[safer]to wait for light-and you agreed to meet me in the morning.i got hit hard that night and in retrospect i should have done whatever i could to get off that night even if you were already gone.this being said-i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug
nopantsben

climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 04:53am PT
oh man.

you fled the scene (which i don't want to judge you for), and had other people risk their lives to save your partners life.
which they did.
how could you not care to mention that???

the "they are just doing their jobs" is crap. if one slips on the east ledges, he may die, and things do go wrong on high angle rescues too.

telling the story as it was, mentioning their names and saying Thank You would have been the very least.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:07am PT
Well I was obviously way out of line with that work comment.

Apparently my many thank you's in person were not enough.

The general consensus seems to be that I did in fact risk the lives of the SAR members involved, for which I'm very sorry, I did not intent to put anyone in harms way.

I am very grateful and thankful for them putting their lives on the line to rescue Doug.

See, nothing wrong with some Internet discussion, to rectify the discrepancies of my skewed perception.
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:26am PT
I'm going to step in here and just say this

Luke is f*#king human he made some mistakes so did Doug. I have found that if we as a collective group of thousands of big walls and millions of climbs help Luke and Doug to understand what it is they did that put SAR in a position no one wants to put SAR in as well as we help Luke and Doug understand what's acceptable when you and your partner agree to take on such a climb.

Luke by all means you thank SAR. Doug you as well. Luke tell the whole story that way we an help you learn how to not make those mistakes again if in fact you have not learned the lesson already.

I'm not going to judge you or Doug but I am, happy to give you any advice you want regarding what to do if such a situation occurs again.

Werner I would hope you throw some of your wisdom as well to this young man and Doug.

Own it Luke and when you own your sh#t both good and bad you get respect.

I would hope guys like Hudon And you no pants Ben give back some positive advice as it seems to me it is more rewarding than pointing fingers and pointing out ones mistakes. Perhaps Luke had no idea and I means NO idea how dangerous his actions were at the time he made that choice to leave Doug.

LETS HELP THESE GUYS BE BETTER CLIMBERS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS AGAIN AND SOME YOUNG CLIMBER-CAN LEARN FROM THIS INCIDENT.

Try being constructive instead of destructive.






TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:44am PT
I wasn't saying that every man for himself is the right thing to do, I was just saying it's a natural reaction to people who aren't used to a situation like that.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:52am PT
Silver is wise.
Own it Luke and when you own your sh#t both good and bad you get respect.

Own it buddy.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 19, 2012 - 11:03am PT
Yep, +1000 what Silver said too. Nathan I thought your post above was appropriate & you were just defending your friend who you probably felt was being unnecessarily called out for things he already spoke of on another thread. My badgering him about sportclimbing & bouldering only stems from a lack of partners to do such things here right now. He was literally just sharing photos here. Studly, way to be constructive.
nopantsben

climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 11:24am PT
kid, it's great that you thanked them in person, but when writing a tr about that climb, thanking them in public and mentioning their work is a good move, that's what i tried to say.

I would hope guys like Hudon And you no pants Ben give back some positive advice as it seems to me it is more rewarding than pointing fingers and pointing out ones mistakes. Perhaps Luke had no idea and I means NO idea how dangerous his actions were at the time he made that choice to leave Doug.
Silver.

you're right. i could have been more complete in what i said.

on the other hand, kidcornier not giving his perspective on what happened in an extensive way makes it difficult to give advice. (or did i miss a post somewhere?)

to say something somewhat constructive, i would say that as sh#t hits the fan there is a few things that are a good idea.
-keep things simple (e.g. do not link pitches, set up simple belays, leave a biner on a penji point...)
-make sure you can communicate (if possible)

if the rope is stuck and you have an anchor, fix it, take 2 jugs and rap down it to undo the mess, then go back up and get ready to tag/haul/whatever.

worst comes to worst, undo the stuck rope and set up a jug line for your partner so you both get to the top and down leaving the show up there. (everyone bonks sometimes, there is no shame in leaving your sh#t up there because you can't deal with anything anymore, that happens...)

obviously, advice is easy in front of a computer, and i still think that the best way to learn from this would be to write down what happened, why you took the decisions you took, and then think about it.



Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
Ben I agree Luke and Doug need to put the whole story out if in fact they want too otherwise we are speculating all day every day.

I know Ben you have mad skills and talent and there is probably not a big rock in the world that you do not stand a chance of climbing given the proper weather and money's.

I would like to see men like you and Hudon step up and mentor these younger guys on their mistakes in a constructive way. I know your not that old Ben I saw you on the bridge this summer during facelift Luke's young teach him something Ben. Doug and Luke you want to live a long time climbing get smart learning from guys like Hudon and Ben.

I know Mark you have been systematically laying out the basics for years here now from your anchor threads to tat removal and if there is one thing I respect you for more than your ability to climb its your doing this type of work so that any kid now crawIng one day can find your Anchor thread and know exactly what's and what's wrong in an anchor.

Ben lets see if Luke and Doug want to share that last day in detail and if not so be it.

I for one am just glad the are both alive and no SAR was hurt in this incident.
pazzo

climber
Vancouver BC
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
I have nothing to add here other than I can't believe the OP actually posted this online. Wow. I have a tough time admitting any defeat online...but this is like admitting to getting raped in prison - we know it happens, it's just either denied or not spoken of.

Interesting TR though.
TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
I personally feel that being called out is unnecessary in a situation like this. All it accomplishes is the person who is being called out feels like an idiot, and they don't learn anything.
These older experienced climbers (Werner) are our heroes. When we talk amongst ourselves about climbing, we don't compare ourselves to Honnold, Sharma, or Ondra. It's names like Hatten, Beckham, and Croft, who we one day hope to be as bold and visionary as they were.
If these older hardmen were to start calling us out on every mistake we made, it would work a lot more into discouraging us from climbing, rather then helping us realize where we went wrong.
Luke (and by Luke I mean all of us) just needs a little guidance, without being so negative.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
I can't speak for anyone but myself and those I climbed with, but we all made mistakes while learning about climbing, sometimes serious ones. We usually learned from the mistakes.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
I, the other hand, appreciate the harsh criticism. I did fuk up and obviously want to hear people's opinion, hence why I posted up.

Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
  Nov 19, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
but we all made mistakes

Yeah, even Yosar makes mistakes. I can personally vouch for that.
brownie

Trad climber
squamish
  Nov 19, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
there once was a kid from Sḵwxwú7mesh,

he went to the valley with just one wish,

to climb a big line and have a good time,

but when he got to the top,

the kid felt something plop,

into his pants a poop had dropped,

so with brown in his trowsers,

and needing a shower,

he said f*#k my record,

it's gonna be tarnished,

atleast no one will know i've got poop in my harness.


Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Nov 19, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
Thanks for an honest opinion Vitality. If not including every detail is dishonest, then so be it.

However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work.

Where in my (unedited) comment did you see an accusation? I did not accuse you of anything. Only pointed out that they DID risk their lives. I am in no position to point fingers and say whose fault it was. Only 'beef' I had with the TR was lack of reference to the rescue, which was only brought up by other people who commented.
Hope all can learn from it, and hope you are back in the valley soon doing other routes. Personally I would climb with you, since I understand that sometimes sh#t happens and we all can f*#k up in one way or another. Almost all of us did. Glad both you, your partner, and SAR guys are safe. Maybe this learning experience will save your, mine, or someone else' life in the future.
PS: No 't' in my name. It's 'Vitaliy'

+1 Silver
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 19, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
All right, enough with beating up Luke.

The problem here is that the report is incomplete. A lot of stuff happened, for which apologies have been made [and accepted, which is great] but we don't really have any reasons or explanations. Why is this?

Luke seemed pretty clear saying why he went down to the Valley right away, and it ain't pretty. 'nuff said.

However my biggest question in this whole clusterfvck is why did Luke [seemingly] wait so long to [apparently] check on Doug and then to call SAR? It [seems] to have waited until mid-afternoon. Why didn't Luke check on Doug first thing in the morning? I say "seems" because all the facts aren't being presented.

Did Luke wait so long because he:

 was unaware that Doug was in trouble?

 was expecting Doug to climb to the summit himself, and descend alone? And if so, what about all the gear up there?

 was unaware of the severity of the storm?

 tried to reach Doug via radio or cell phone, but couldn't? [I understand there were communications issues]


"I did fuk up and obviously want to hear people's opinion, hence why I posted up."

Anyway, Luke, why don't you just write the complete report? The information you have provided us is only bits and pieces, and is very incomplete. How about writing the whole damn thing out for us, so we can understand. Perhaps you could reference it with the timeline on the Yosar report so we can figure out what happened?

We'll quit beating you up now. We just want to understand.

Cheers,
Pete

P.S. Is it now possible to edit the subject line on McTopo trip reports? Can you do this on forum posts too?
brownie

Trad climber
squamish
  Nov 19, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
"i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug"

i believe Paul said it best...

"Let it be.."
briham89

Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
  Nov 19, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
Credit: briham89
Credit: briham89
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 19, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
Without knowing exactly what happened it's hard for me to give any relevant advice.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
  Nov 19, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
Wow! This whole deal is unreal! Unless that dood fingered you during the night or something, no f*#king way you leave him behind. No way.
Matt Thomsen

Big Wall climber
Places
  Nov 19, 2012 - 09:04pm PT
Weird... Luke, Maybe be stay off El Cap, if 5% of what has been said about you is true. Don't mess it up for the real climbers...

That would be showing respect to SAR, and many others...
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
  Nov 19, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
Yup, most climbers have helped many other climbers off routes or out of a jamb. How can we help other climbers and leave our own partner? It is true that sometimes we're in a great headspace and sometimes we're not. And when something challenging comes along when we're in a bad headspace that is when things can go bad quickly. Knowing very little about this case, and reading between the lines, seems like Luke was getting a bit anxious about the situation, wanted to get off bad, didn't respect Doug's ability, became fixated on the negative and as he said... took care of number one. Has he been a great partner up until this climb and helped/rescued lots of other climbers through the years?... for all I know he may very well have. Do I want to partner up with someone who left a partner behind... not really. :)
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:04pm PT
Hey Luke- If you're going to start a story like this, you want to be the one to finish it. It's time.
MisterE

climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
Panic is a strange beast, we've all succumbed to it at some level.

Denial or lack of awareness of severity during the bail seems right, but guilt and angst could have added to the late response.

That being said, you are a team and have some responsibility for that commitment.

Glad that there is no hard feelings, and that everyone got out safe.

Be warned! The Peanut gallery may be harder on you than your own partner!

Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
So Luke since my last post you have received some good thoughts but the one that you should pay attention to is Russ's post about you being fingered by your partner.

I will second Russ's comment with a if your partner fingers you and you didn't ask for it you can bail on the last pitch in a storm for fear of fisting in the depths of a huge pacific storm.

You were just mentored by the Fish himself. Congrats
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 20, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
Let's not be too critical, eh? Luke seems to be engaging in enough of that himself already. I don't know how many of you would have posted what he has here, under the title "The Kid Flunks Grade VI; Photo Essay" Sure, it's a rainy November, with not a lot else to gossip about. And maybe there's more we truly could learn. Still, let's try to stick with our better angels.

Is there any climber who hasn't, to a greater or lesser extent, stood in Luke's shoes?
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 19, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
__

Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Nov 19, 2012 - 09:42am PT
Werner is right. At a minimum I would go with a kayak style top, one that has a neoprene neck cuff and wrist cuffs. Last time I was in a storm up there nailing away in regular rain gear the ice water was going in my sleeves and fire-hosing out my pant legs.

The only thing that will really keep you dry up there is steepness. Once you start futzing around in the rain or water or anything else, you are probably in a heap of sh#t. Stay dry at all costs.

Oh... and YER GONNA DIE!!!

to add: go up fat. During my "event" I started the wall weighing about 180 lbs. When I got down I weighed 162. I'm glad I had a lot of ass to burn and needed it all.
__


Here is some more good advice Lule
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 19, 2012 - 11:00pm PT

-Tom Evans photo of the gear retrieval

FWIW before announcing I was leaving in 10 minutes, I announced that the tag line was stuck and that I could not haul, then suggested leaving the bags where they were (where they are in the photo above) and jugging out.

My suggestion was rejected and a choice to stay was made, in underestimation of the storm coming I made the agreement to return the next day.

Well aware that finishing a wall in one less bivy then your partner was pour style I headed down, confident that Doug had everything underthesun to survive a storm in style.

The following morning in unfavourable weather we went to check on him from the meadow, he didnt respond to our yells to turn on the radio, and we couldnt tell through the binocs whether or not the fly was on.

At which point I decided to seek out advice, we got in contact with NPS(around noon) and explained the situation, including that he was amply supplied with food and equipment.

They were able to get his attention and have him turn on his radio. He indicated he was freezing and could not get himself out safely or weather the storm safely.

So hopefully this slightly alters peoples perception of my decision making process, although it will probably just stir the pot that much more.

EDIT;Time frame Aislinn says we were in the meadow between 830 and 9. Then after deciding who to talk to got in touch with NPS at 11.


thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 20, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
As far as the speculation that I could have rappelled down the lead line to unstick the tag line; that would have been possible but not effective. the lead line was anchored to a tree on the left(just of put of frame in the photo above) the tag line was stuck (if you look closely the lead line leaves me and goes left, the big flake just beyond my first piece of gear) and the haul anchor is where Jim is in the picture.

There was no rope left over for me to safely access the haul anchor.

The most prevalent lesson that I'm learning out of all this is patients.

Had I been more patient finding a partner with the same rhythm as me, rather than going with the first person who agreed to go with me.


Had I been more patient at the top, instead of giving a "10minutes make up your fuking mind" command.


Not proud of the decisions I made, and hopefully I'll never put myself in a situation like that again.


Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:42am PT
I hope to see some more positive feed back to Luke he is learning from his mistake.

Luke I will do a wall with you any day and in fact this spring I would like it if you would join Fox and I on a wall. That's well over thirty grade 6 walls of experience and many grade 5 walls, you can see how it's done with a clear line of communication and planning. Yes bring your headlamp we climb at night A LOT.

Luke don't beat yourself up learn and don't forget what works and what doesn't.

Now go finish that thing on the chief and stayed psyched for the big rock you have the attitude tha gets one to the top it's just a matter of refining the rest if the package so everyone is on top at the end. Oh and the top s where the party really happens you missed that last time.

Think Shield!
Relic

Social climber
Weenie
  Nov 20, 2012 - 11:05am PT
I'm so amazed at the ability Tom has to capture a situation happening at the very top of the Captain.
rincon

Trad climber
Coarsegold
  Nov 20, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
So the worst thing Luke did, was abandon his partner, but Doug apparently had the option to jug out on the lead line, but refused that option?

I would have been up that line in a flash, with a storm moving in.

Always tie in short when in a portaledge, especially if you are going to stand up and put your rain fly on! There's no reason for taking a fifteen footer out of your ledge. Plus if there's a storm anywhere within a hundred miles, put your fly on before settling in.
Cheers!

supafly

Trad climber
vancouver, bc
  Nov 20, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
I don't really understand the negative feedback here - if Luke had stuck around and tried (I don't know how he would have) to get back down to his partner, what is the benefit? Spoon out the storm together? There would then have been two hypothermic climbers who wouldn't have been able to get hold of YOSAR. No, I think Luke did the only thing he could in a fairly high stress situation and possibly averted a much worse situation as a result of that decision.

Luke: I think the reason we're all still talking about this is because of a seeming "missing layer" behind the whole story, possibly more information about the interpersonal story between you and your partner, it does seem a little strange, as pointed out, that YOSAR only got themselves moving around 2pm the next day.

But that is by no means a requirement, that's your own story to tell, and maybe you'd rather forget about it.

The biggest thing I would take from this all is that climbing is much more than just about achieving an objective, it's about the partnerships we form as well and how we treat those partnerships, they have a direct effect and reflect how we live our everyday practical lives, and that's more about the whole story than just the final outcome.

Dr Phil out! :)
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
  Nov 20, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
I'm amazed at how many of you give him a pass for abandoning his partner. That's not a matter of experience. That's a matter of who you are inside. Russ is right -- no way you ever abandon a partner in a situation that could become dangerous, even if you're not getting along or disagree on strategy. Shameful.
WBraun

climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
When Doug originally came in to give his report here he was pretty pissed off for being abandoned and had to be calmed down according to my source.

Later here on the internet we do not see any such sign from Doug.

According to the analysis of one debriefer Luke could have further caused more problems if he had gotten lost on his descent back to the valley which could have exacerbated further problems.

It's much better to get the full complete picture then to speculate on why what if when.

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
This is an awesome thread. I failed on the Muir in 1990 by trying it with a friend that was not fit enough. We bivied at the flake bivi at the end of the big first day traverse. My friend Scott looked like a ghost by the time he got to me at the last belay, and I had really mangled the haul lines on the last lower with the bags spinning and winding up the rope. In a fit of frustration I got the knife out! And started cutting! I was just carefully trying to cut a piece of webbing that seemed to be causing some of the grief - taking a shortcut (maybe punn intended), and low and behold a haulbag dropped to the ground! That was that. Sometimes it seems it was deliberate sabbatage on my part - making the decision to go down easier, since because of my friends condition we would have to anyway. Maybe I did not want the blame to go on him. I probably knew somewhere in my brain the web I cut would not lead to the hammocks, so we had a good night at that expanding flake bivi. My friend never complained that we had to go down, so I felt good about ending a situation that could have become worse if we had kept going.

So! I love seeing new picks of what I missed up there and I love this story as it has unfolded. Seems like a perfect bit of trolling too. There's a pic near the end of one of the upper dihedrals - looks like it needs rotating - think we could get that done?

I was thinking too, that another category of climber could be added to the list people have to chose from when they sign up here. There's social climber, gym climber, sport climber.........how about armchair climber?

After we got down the next morning I inspected the contents of the vinyl rucksac I had cut free and the most interesting thing was that the filaments in the bulb of my headlamp were bent over at a 90 degree angle. That was pretty cool. Geez, 1990 seems like fairly recent history but that was 22 years ago!

P.S. In no way am I implying anyone was unfit - am just telling my story!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 20, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
"Had I been more patient finding a partner with the same rhythm as me, rather than going with the first person who agreed to go with me."

O'Really? Doug emailed me on the 10th of July, 2012 specifically to tell me that he was going to be climbing Muir Wall with you! You make it sound as though you just picked up Doug in Camp 4 and was unaware of his skill level. He even drove all the way to BC to pick you up.

In fact, if you are implying in any way that Doug was less experienced or slower than you, it is PRECISELY for this reason that you should knott have left him alone up there!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 20, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
It's much better to get the full complete picture then to speculate on why what if when.



No sh#t Sherlock.

Mchale's Navy - good tale!

As for the hallowed "Thou Shalt not abandon thine Partner" doctrine, well it is a good guideline. Hell its even a very good guideline, but a its a guideline, not religious doctrine.
There are plenty of examples of how perhaps blindly following that mantra may not be so smart. How about Donini "abandoning " his partner on Thunder peak? How about the doctrine of "Thou shalt not intentionally sever the rope that thine partner is suspended from"? Try telling that to those guys on Siulla Grande.

Sure its easy for us arm chair quarterbacks to say I'd do this or that but unless its totally obvious (which it aint, as werner just noted) caution maybe the better part of gratuitous pompous grandstanding, which is what I'm hearing
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
Pete-
"Had I been more patient finding a partner with the same rhythm as me, rather than going with the first person who agreed to go with me."

Does that say anywhere that he was less experienced, slower or found in camp 4?NO! So don't put fukin works in my mouth.


What it says, is that Doug was the first person who agreed to climb el cap with me, and that our rhythms didn't coordinate.

All I was saying is that patiences could have got on another wall together first instead of rushing to the big stone


Another lesson to be learned is the faster you climb the less chance of being caught in a storm. Thus 'fast is safe'.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
And hoser- smooth move deleting your comment.
Jeremy

climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
FAIL.

Luckily you are both still alive.

Next time try not to cover up your f*#k-ups.

Tell the truth and man up the first time...this could have been avoided.

JA
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
Interesting Jeremy, how do you think I tried to cover up my f*#k ups. Pretty sure I've been up front from the get go.

The intent of sharing these photos was to share them with those who were following mikes thread "going back to Cali" where details of the unsuccessful mission were readily available.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:22pm PT
I'll second that .

Luke has been straight up about everything he is responsible for.
Mikemcee

Social climber
Mill Valley, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
Hey Kid...you kind of open yourself up to this stuff when you choose to put your adventures out in public. I think the bottom line is most of us have a hard time seeing how you can leave a partner regardless of the circumstances, regardless of whether or not your rythyms were in sync.

In fairness though, you admitted it was the wrong call...even from you title.
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Because I've been in situations where if my partner had bailed on me I'd have been f*#ked, I keep putting myself in Doug's shoes on this one.

Luckily for me, my partner never bailed.

I always try to see both sides of an issue; on this one, I can't see it.

Interesting Jeremy, how do you think I tried to cover up my f*#k ups. Pretty sure I've been up front from the get go.

Ed: Didn't you edit your thread title? I thought I read this TR the first time it popped up and got zero sense that a climber had abandoned his partner in the face of a storm on El Cap, something that would have stood out to me on reading it since I've never heard of anyone doing that before. Seemed that posters here goaded you into coming out with the story, and the thread title changed somewhere along the line. Could be wrong.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
Part of me says there was SOME logic in just getting both climbers on top and leaving the haulbags at least temporarilly since there was a rope jamming problem, and communications may not have been the best. At that point they could have regrouped and re-thought things out. They could both have gone down to escape the storm or they could have more effectively gotten the haulbags out of there together - or at least just what they needed to bivi on top. It would have been better to rescue the haulbags rather than a climber.

Hoots

climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Jeez, what a goat show this is turning out to be.
Yes, you got some lessons to learn, we all did (most of us still do). I had a storm epic topping on the NA on my second trip up the Captain, and it taught me some things I will not soon be forgetting.
But the thing that rubs me the wrong way about this whole debacle is how you chose to publicize your climb in a very one-sided way; all photos are happy smiley loving life shots. No write up of the event (or the climb for that matter). Context matters here. Tell the story of the climb, of the incident, and let's be done with this.
But don't get all pissey when you put this up on a public forum and ask for criticism of your actions.

Jeremy

climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
Ed: Didn't you edit your thread title? I thought I read this TR the first time it popped up and got zero sense that a climber had abandoned his partner in the face of a storm on El Cap, something that would have stood out to me on reading it since I've never heard of anyone doing that before. Seemed that posters here goaded you into coming out with the story, and the thread title changed somewhere along the line. Could be wrong.



BINGO RINGO

splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
  Nov 20, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
I haven't followed NOR read much of this thread and don't plan to. BUT, if you start out as a team, then you end up as a team. that's elemental/essential, to say the least!! (whatever decisions you make are mutually agreed upon)!!!

Either that, or you take up soloing!!!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 20, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
ENUFF ALREADY of this lame thread arent there some muddy wet cracks in Canada waiting?

Tons. Reams. More than you can shake a stick at. Why'd you think we're hiding inside paying so much attention to this retarded thread?

Toad gas nails it once again
RP3

Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
  Nov 20, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
Hey Hoots!

I'm glad you didn't leave me at that same belay on the Muir last summer...even though I was putting rocks in the haulbag the whole climb!
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
  Nov 20, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
LAME THREAD
HA, HA ...

THIS IS PRETTY LAME (finally got around to reading some of it) ...

KINDA APROPOS FOR SUPERTACO LATELY, EH?????

edit: i think i'll BUMP it all aftern00n ... LOL!!!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 20, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
actually I don't think the general drift in theme is so lame, its just the needless character assassination that butts to the head of the line so much. There simply is not enough information to cast judgement and If Luke and Doug for their reasons prefer to keep it a private matter then there never will be. So what?

The whole idea of "partnership of the rope" and all that is completely central to what we do. There's no surprise why it strikes a nerve and good reason too. Just imagine what anguished second guessing went through the mind of Simon Yates after sending his good bro to certain death to save his own hide? He might have done things differently - better or worse. Either way, no matter what we know about it through public knowledge they apparently don't hold judgement against each other for actions that only they can really understand.

If they have a bone to pick its between them and maybe YOSAR, not us unless they chose.
If anyone else wants to open up their own foibles to public scrutiny then fire away. We'll be waiting with knives drawn and ready
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
  Nov 20, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
the needless character assassination that buts to the front of the line...

Bruce,

Yes, I agree! That is partially what is was referring to as lame. It should be discussed. Something can be gained, learned...clarified yet, perhaps!

Like I said, i haven't read very many of the posts. But get the general picture. I was mainly using the term LAME in a broader sense! Although it applies to some specific aspects, but like you said, we don't know the whole picture. But lame overall in that this site is reminding me more and more of "As The World Turns."! With all the pundits passing judgment. Everyone injects themselves into situations, from their armchairs, with 20/20 hindsight.

If nothing else, there is some food for thought here ( i do plan on reading all of this) something to be considered and learned. I'll shut up until I finish reading the whole thread!! ...comfortably from my armchair!!!
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
  Nov 20, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
Wow. It's the Lord Jim tale of the climbing world!

I'm sorry, but abandonment seems pretty out there to me. Climbing is not for everyone and I'd consider a new hobby.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 20, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
"...the needless character assassination."

I'm knott seeing anyone attacking Luke's character/identity. We are questioning his behaviour, and that is not the same thing at all.

I also don't understand what Luke means by "rhythm". I believe they were only on the wall for a total of six nights, which is pretty darn fast for such a long route. Many competent and more experienced teams take longer than that. Considering that it was Doug's first El Cap route [not sure re. Luke] and that they didn't fix any pitches, just blasted, it seems pretty damn fast to me. I'd love to have a partner who could match that "rhythm".
WBraun

climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
Luke has been completely upfront about this whole thing here, so I give him full kudos for that.

He hasn't tried to hide anything and any question forwarded to him he honestly answers.

Please try not to attempt any character assignations towards him.

There's just some holes in the original report that need to be clarified.

Luke has done an excellent job standing up under scrutiny and fire, .. respect!!!
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
I've been sleuthing through this thread and found the reference the Kid made about the 'Back to Cali' thread and found this post;

Oct 22, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
Sh#t hit the fan up on Muir wall. I topped out around 10pm last night shorty after a nasty gear ripping fall. The tag line was stuck and the weather was getting fierce. I told Doug our best option was to leave the gear and bail for the valley, but he refused to leave the bags and insisted he was staying at belay 30. So off I went on an 8 mile wander and made it back to camp shortly before the storm hit.

Plans to go back and rescue him myself went sideways when I woke up to see snow on the valley rim. So I notified the NPS and YOSAR and they plucked his hypothermic stubborn ass off about a half an hour ago.

I've been beating myself up all day about whether I did the right thing leaving him there to fend for himself. Although we had all the equipment to theoretically survive a storm, it was certainly not on my list of super cool things to do. "

I was going to ask the Kid why he was so scared and this answers it a bit. A few posts later he mentions that Doug was climbing pretty slow given the circumstances. It sounds like Doug may have been pretty fatigued and unable to make the best decisions. It seems like the Kid could could have been more aware of Doug's condition. Perhaps they should have set up the tent before Luke set off on the last lead. That would have taken some of the uncertainty out of things. Why can't somebody rap down a haul line to find where it is jammed - too too tired too scared? And the other guy is just too tired? It does sound like the Kid's partner told him to F___off. ..................?

What happened, happened. I liked the part where the Kid said he had planned to go back up himself and help Doug (a good sign), but the storm got in the way of that. Doug may have been so fatigued that if the Kid had done anything else from what he did do, things could have turned out even worse.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
  Nov 20, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
Boy....As the Taco Turns!

I can't turn away, but I don't really want to see either.

If I had ditched my pard at the summit right before a storm, would I be posting about it for all to see on the interwebs? probably not. I've done a few things I'm not proud of, and will readily admit that my personal m.o. has been to keep these things a bit more private. So cut the kid a little slack. He's obviously asking for it, what with the shiny happy teaser pix and the swapping titles and the incomplete storytelling and the not...exactly... wanting to overtly slag his [ditched][slow?][not-super-compatible?] pard for all to see, quite. But he obviously feels the need for some kind of expiation, or else why choose a 7-billion-person venue to talk about it? And he's young, and he f*#ked up, and he knows it. And he'll probably never ditch another partner in the most exposed place on El Cap right as a storm hits again.

Obviously there were some partner compatibility issues that could have been better handled. That's probably the big takeaway here. Climbing big rocks is pretty simple. People are complex.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Yeah, it's not like he really ditched him. I'm serious here. Perhaps things turned out as good as they could have for these guys.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
I also don't understand what Luke means by "rhythm". I believe they were only on the wall for a total of six nights, which is pretty darn fast for such a long route. Many competent and more experienced teams take longer than that. Considering that it was Doug's first El Cap route [not sure re. Luke] and that they didn't fix any pitches, just blasted, it seems pretty damn fast to me. I'd love to have a partner who could match that "rhythm".

Doug doesn't want to talk about details because he doesn't want to be embarrassed. Luke doesn't want to embarrass him so he's not talking.

If you read the el cap reports you will notice that Tom calls them "the crawling Canadians" early in the ascent. Then all of a sudden one night they blasted off. This was because they were swapping leads in the heat of the day initially and it was killing them..

We went to see them the night after Tom wrote this:

Muir: The crawling Canadians made it to the start of the upper section and camped out all day. Seems to be a trend these days! They have worked hard getting their kit up the low angle rock to this point and I suppose have earned a day off! Enjoy it men, you probably won’t get another one.


Aislinn, Relic and I talked to Luke on the radio and he told us they had switched tactics and were now sieging at night. He told Ais they were leading in blocks. I got her to ask him how big the blocks were and he replied "mine is the rest of the captain!"

He was joking obviously, but Luke led 26 pitches on this climb. That's why they went so fast.

Hey Pete didn't I overhear you predict they were going to bail when you were talking to Tom on the bridge?

;)

Edit: By no means do I advocate ditching your partner. Just stating fact.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:20pm PT
Yes, I definitely predicited they would bail. They amazed me when they finished, and I was very proud of them for doing so! Well, sort of. One of them finished, at least. Had anyone bet me regarding the team's success, I would have lost some beers, for sure. They had a rather inglorious start, but fortunately I was in the right place at the right time, and was able to give them a bit of a hand.

"Doug doesn't want to talk about details because he doesn't want to be embarrassed. Luke doesn't want to embarrass him so he's not talking."

Uh, dude ... has it ever occured to you that you have the above completely ass-backwards?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
Part of my training for my failed 1990 attempt of the Muir Wall was going to the tanning salon to help prepare for the sun.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
That's good McHale but your chances of success would've greatly improved if you'd have trained hard at presumption, like Zabrok.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
  Nov 20, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
Please bring me up to speed quickly on Zabrok ( I'm reading about him while I wait for your response regarding what you mean )..... looks like there's too much to have to learn there for now. I'm actually being serious about the tanning salon but I did intend that to be funny. And, I don't mean to take anything away from Doug and Luke at all. Stories like this make the Captain seem big again - I like that.

I see that Zabrok is right above me here! I have a lot of catching up to do.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 20, 2012 - 10:43pm PT
Uh, dude ... has it ever occured to you that you have the above completely ass-backwards?

I'd like to hear what Doug has to say. Seems like all the damaging info is out there.

Here is a pic from the night I was talking about.


Pete I'd love to hear the tale of the bear from your perspective!!

Thanks for that.
Fish Boy

Social climber
Squeamish
  Nov 20, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
What if you were not on the last pitch? Let's say you were at pitch 23 Luke, then what would you have done?

Putting yourself in a position where not being able to rap is bad news, being fast and efficient isn't just about climbing fast, its about everything else too. Linking pitches doesn't make one faster at all either...
john hansen

climber
  Nov 20, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
I am surprised no one has mentioned Barber,,,

Just stirring the pot,,


T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
  Nov 21, 2012 - 12:07am PT
I'm amazed at how many of you give him a pass for abandoning his partner. That's not a matter of experience. That's a matter of who you are inside. Russ is right -- no way you ever abandon a partner in a situation that could become dangerous, even if you're not getting along or disagree on strategy. Shameful.

I couldn't agree more! I cant believe you were not charged for the rescue. Or were you?
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
  Nov 21, 2012 - 12:13am PT
The OP title says it all.

Keep on climbing kid. Take the lesson forward and make good in the world.


The full read of this TR is as good as a whole edition of Accidents In North American Mountaineering. Hopefully many will read it and come away with something useful.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 21, 2012 - 12:27am PT
Did he leave his partner or did his partner not want to leave? Did his partner want to stay with the stuff & things? Yes. Did Luke want to voluntarily rappel back down into a nice epic night when all the means for him & his partner to get off the wall were available? No, hell no. Look at that photo?? They were 100 feet from the top. Doug could have easily jugged out & they both could have walked down together. Instead he refused to leave & like a child chose to stay with the ever important stuff & things. To say that Luke left Doug is a huge stretch since Doug had only 100 feet of jumaring to finish the route BUT HE DIDN'T WANT TO! HE WANTED TO STAY WITH THE STUFF! STUFF WAS HIS PRIORITY! Makes more sense to say that they left each other if you ask me, or at most that Doug refused to leave. Doug could have slept in camp that night too but possessions were more important to him at that point in time. It's not like Luke tied him off on a knife blade & fukked off. He was not in need of a rescue when Luke left. It seemed like his reasons for staying & Luke leaving were more of a personal nature & had little to do with Luke leaving him in a dangerous situation. I'm sure if Doug felt the situation dangerous that he may have put some effort into getting the f out rather than voluntarily refusing to do what any reasonable person would have done and said "hey dude, wait for me, I'm jugging out!" . I mean seriously- what was he thinking!

Some ppl commenting on this TR should at least read into it a bit before being dicks & putting this whole thing on Luke. I'm not saying what he did is right or wrong but to put this all on him seems a bit of a stretch.

I'd go climb with Luke again, only single pitch sport or bouldering in a controlled environment like a gym of course, but yea id let him spot me :-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 21, 2012 - 01:27am PT
Lets break down Doug's statement a bit.

Luke-i was going as fast as i could up there,to make it sound like i was making no effort to keep up is just not true.i dont want what happened to ruin an otherwise great climb.i was still haulling the previous linked pitchs when you announced you were leaving in ten minutes from 2 pitchs above-after asking me to tag you the lead line witch was my anchor.

Doug was pissed that he had to haul the bags by himself and Luke took off on self belay.

had you have waited at p 30 rather than racing off we would have finished together with the gear before the storm hit.as it was-with 2 traversing pitchs to clean-a haul to finish and a stuck tag line-i felt it better[safer]to wait for light-and you agreed to meet me in the morning.

Doug felt he was too tired to continue and inexperience led him to believe that he would be able to deal with the issue the next day. I would never go for a plan that involved me hiking back up the captain or ascending east ledges the day after a 6 day wall.

i got hit hard that night and in retrospect i should have done whatever i could to get off that night even if you were already gone.

This being said-i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug

Doug forgave Luke so maybe some of you guys should lighten up a bit with the negative non-constructive comments.

Let's analyze the situation. Obviously the best thing Luke could have done in this situation would have been follow regular procedure and haul the pitch instead or taking off solo on the next two. That being said, I guess when the tag line got stuck he could have rapped down to try and unstick it and if that was impossible considering
The conditions, reverse the pitch back to Doug and weather the storm with him?

The ropes obviously would have been frozen the next day which would have made it very difficult to jug out.

Crappy situation either way.

Edit still don't understand myself why Doug couldn't jug out but Werner said he couldn't.....

TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 21, 2012 - 02:18am PT
To be fair, Luke did share the gist of what happened in the Cali thread. Most people who were following that one were waiting for this one, and already knew what happened. He also said at the start here, that he intended to keep this to photos only, as the important parts of the story had been told elsewhere.
Obviously that's changed now, as he has said quite a bit about it, but for the people calling him out for not telling the story, he did tell it. You just missed it.
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
  Nov 21, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
Paging Ottawa Doug to the microphone ...

Edit: wrong Doug sorry
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 21, 2012 - 03:53am PT
Hey Big Mike My intention wasn't to hate on Doug so sorry Doug if I was being an as#@&%e, my bad- I was trying to point out how it wasn't all Luke that caused the outcome of this situation & I imagine that they were both feeling some frustrations with each other at that point in the climb, look at the bags in that photo. So close!! they could have both went & got pizza & slept for 2 or 3 days then went & got the bags. I'm glad they're both ok. I guess Luke might have to write a bit more about that day when he's ready so we can all cut the crap here.

I think this is the most posts I've seen on a tr

Edit- when I wrote as#@&%e it turned it into as#@&%e!! ST has censorship now?!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 21, 2012 - 04:04am PT
Ryan we cross posted. I had the same independent thought ;)

Now? It's always had it! F*#k Fuvk!
Bmacd- it's slodoug.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 21, 2012 - 04:05am PT
Oh sh#t that's f*#king awesome, I always just typed my curses with symbols haha
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 21, 2012 - 11:31am PT
{{{{{{{{sh!t}}}}}}}}}}}
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
  Nov 21, 2012 - 07:35am PT
Yikes! Choose your partners carefully, or know that even though someone is belaying you, you are always soloing.

Thanks for the full disclosure, though. Even if it took teeth pulling.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
  Nov 21, 2012 - 09:01am PT
The kid says he already learned the lesson that speed is safety, but I wanted to elaborate on this point.

Before I knew the dramatic finish to this climb and was just admiring the photos, I was struck by the Evans shot showing a “rest day” high on the route. I never felt comfortable on a wall until I got off it, so the idea of voluntarily spending an extra day up there struck me as foreign to my experience.

I was constantly nervous about running out of water or a quick and ugly change in the weather while high up. This always caused me and my partners to waste not a minute in moving up the thing. In retrospect, it is obvious that even doing a pitch or two on that rest day would have prevented the crisis as the storm closed in at the top of the route.

I have scant experience compared to the many here who count their El Cap routes in the double digits, and my big walls are decades in the past. I know from reading Hudon and other experts that rest days are not unusual these days and necessary sometimes. But I think a sense of urgency when climbing long routes is part of respecting--that is, properly fearing-- the mountains that you climb, especially here where the climb was begun with days getting short and with winter coming. Speed has long been recognized as one of the main ways to stay alive while climbing, in all its forms, from rock to ice to alpine, and big walls are no different.

That said, I have made enough boneheaded errors climbing to be wary of judging someone else’s bad experience. I am glad no one was hurt and wish the kid and Doug many years of safe climbing.

Great admiration for the YOSAR guys who provided the happy conclusion to the story.
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 21, 2012 - 09:45am PT
That said, I have made enough boneheaded errors climbing to be wary of judging someone else’s bad experience
I hope Ryands post and this quote will wake up the armchair critics!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:00am PT
I am surprised no one has mentioned Barber,,,

Enough already. Good question. Who has the story on Henry Barber and the other guy on the Breach Wall? I can't remember the details other than that its the poster child for the charge of abandonment
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:23am PT
Yeah we should probably starts thread about how Mr Yates left Simpson behind as well.

We should then bash him for not completely checking that monster crevase better before he left Joe behind.

Luke while many will say you did the wrong thing here and I think you would agree you made some mistakes I see this as your opportunity to understand that those who are telling you your wrong and bad are not people you want to climb with.

Sure it's fine to tell Luke his choice was poor but for f*#ks sakes give the young man some advice some positive ideas and perhaps a constructive bit of advice.

I want to thank Luke for taking this bashing it has shown me who i would climb with here better after reading about all these big wall aces who never made a poor judgement call or a mistake.

I'm of the opinion Doug had two choices one was dig deep and get it done or get left behind. I personally think Doug dug his own grave there and fortunately did not have to climb into it.

I'll ask again should Yates of hung out for days on the mountain trying to find Simpson checking every nook and cranny for Simpson.

I personally would rope up,with Yates any day. I would rope up with Luke any day as well. Be constructive here and educate this young man on some things and it so funny to read how all you pros never made a mistake that could have killed both you and your partner. How is that being being perfect?

Luke the offer stands any wall any time. I'm happy to tie in with you and I understand what you meant about a rhythm. When you find a partner who you can get this rythym going with the pitches fly bye and the experience is more relaxed.

PTPP your knowledge on climbing is huge educate do not choose sides educate both Doug and Luke be constructive. You were new to this once and perhaps,you never made this mistake but you have made plenty I'm sure and just been lucky not to have some bad sh#t happen.

Silver
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:43am PT
Is this Doug, Ottawa Doug?
I thought someone said this Doug hadn't climbed El Cap before? Ottawa Doug has soloed Tribal Rite at the very least.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:58am PT
Is this thread getting old or what? Time to put it to bed.
Mark it was NOT Ottawa Doug.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 21, 2012 - 11:19am PT
Thanks, Tom, I didn't think so.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 21, 2012 - 11:45am PT
Before I knew the dramatic finish to this climb and was just admiring the photos, I was struck by the Evans shot showing a “rest day” high on the route. I never felt comfortable on a wall until I got off it, so the idea of voluntarily spending an extra day up there struck me as foreign to my experience.

They did climb that day!! They climbed all night until 7am and then started again at 7 that night! They could not climb during the day because of the heat, and their water situation.

Heck if Doug didn't lead the first two a1 dihedral pitches the last day, taking something like 7 hours and refusing to give up the lead maybe he never would have ended up in that situation!!!
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
  Nov 21, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
Big Mike-

Thanks for providing the details about the reason for the rest day. The photo caption didn't tell the whole story.


It shows some serious determination to decide to climb at night to beat the heat. The disruption of normal sleeping patterns and extreme exhaustion will fog anyone's mind and this could help to explain the decisions that are being second-guessed here.




Noah D

Gym climber
WYO
  Nov 21, 2012 - 06:24pm PT
WBraun...

Im sure your a BAMF, and have done everything twice...
but, I'm pretty sure this WYO kid could kick your ass...Inside Yosemite your a superstar..outside of the Valley you aint sh#t..Great job at being a dick

Noah
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 21, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
Werner's a dick! Werner's a dick!

Is it Friday night yet? I'm down in Kentucky getting ready for caving, and man, it sure -feels- like Friday night!!

Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

Hey Luke "Henry Barber" Kor-mee, eh? Your new Valley Nickname is 'Henry Barber'.

Note: Valley Nicknames are bestowed, not chosen.

Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
  Nov 21, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
Heck if Doug didn't lead the first two a1 dihedral pitches the last day, taking something like 7 hours and refusing to give up the lead maybe he never would have ended up in that situation!!!
3 hours to lead an A1 pitch = not ready for El Cap
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
  Nov 21, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
wow-first off i'd like to thank Aaron Smith,Ben Doyle,and Matt Othmer as well as the other yosar members for rescueing me off muir wall,They are amazing at what they do-thank you.let me do my best here to say what happened.Luke and I were not jelling as partners,he was indeed faster and more experienced and therefore naturally took on the leader role,our original plan to swing leads was not working out in the hot sun so we resorted to blocks at night and he did most of the leading,we managed pretty good both to get along for the most part and make progress.on the morning of the last day luke gave me the 2 pitch dithredral block-[big mike,[refused to give up the lead?] were are you getting that??luke knew he was faster-he wanted me to lead these and i did,and not that it makes a world of difference but 27 is c1 and 28 is c2 nutting and small cams and i did the best i could-]obviously upset with how long it took he linked the next two 29&30, he hauled the gear bag to 30 and we released the pigs witch i would haul when i arrived at 30 As Was Normal.i arrived at p30 after cleaning and he was somewhere linking the next two,he took a fall,i could not see him but i heard him and inquired about him-he said he was ok and carried on arriving at the anchor shortly thereafter.he used our second lead line to climb these pitchs-it was tied to the other lead line maby ten feet off the anchor,the first move on this pitch[p31]is a penji to 5.8 hands so the first pc on the pitch was below and to the left of the anchor,i had just started to haul when luke calls down and asked if i could tag him the other lead line,well no i coul'nt it was my anchor,then he calls that the tag line is stuck[pigs are still down near p28 because i have only just started to haul]]so we spend some time trying to swing it free to no avail,he then calls down that he doesn't know what to do and hes leaving in ten minutes,leave the gear and jug out--juging out means finishing my haul and cleaning two traversing pitchs and passing the knot.so i figure if i'm going to do that then i'll fix the tag line situation in witch case its back in bussiness and yet he's leaving and quite obviously frazzled,so i figure[wrongly]leave then ,i'll stay and deal with it,i think what i said to him was 'f that'.we were not communicating well.as far as i can tell,i had a couple hours work in front of me to top out.he agrees to come back up in the morning and takes off.i figure i'll get something to eat and a couple hours sleep and get back to it,i'm exhausted and hungry.i dont set up my fly cause i'm an idiot and figure i'll just get a couple hours in my bivy sack-see the yosar report for my fiasco when i woke up covered in slush and soaked,moring comes i have been freezing soaking wet all night,i have no idea what time any thing happens-i am expecting Luke to call from above and help me sort sh#t out,i cannot at this point do it on my own,i'm soaked and shaking cold,my hands are not working ,it occurs to me i should try luke on the radio,they didn't work for us on the wall but we did get through to his girlfriend so maby i can get though to him.i call luke on the radio and yosar answers well aware of my situation,i tell them i'm cold and wet but just need luke to come up and help as planned,after serveral conversations they reply that luke is not coming,but they are.they haul me to the top.after warming me we start down.
No i was not needing to be calmed down because i was mad at being abandonned,i was pissed that luke did not come back as planned,not so much that he left,i was embarrassed to have been rescued.yes i f@cked up big and should have got myself out the night before.i tottally underestemated the coming weather.i agree that we did not jell as partners,we had different ideas about how things should be done,but i let him run the show seeing as he was better and faster.yes,i was mad he didnt come for me and couldn't understand why they could but he couln't.i can think of many things we/I could have/should have done differently and am truly sorry for having to have yosar risk their lives for me,they are amazing.i am amazed this thread has become what it has,and i read every word,many of you have been helpful and i thank you for that.so... hopefully this clears some unanswered questions up. as i said before-mistakes were made-i made mistakes-Luke apologized to me and i do not hold any grudges against him,and certainly nothing that happened to me during the night was his fault.once again-I need to thank Yosar for being the best at what they do-
Doug
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
  Nov 21, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
Thanks, Doug.

Glad you're typing in person, and we're not reading your obit.

See you for wings at Magwyer's on Tuesday. In the meantime, there is cave to be discovered!

Suggestion: edit your post to throw in some paragraph breaks. It is hard to read in one giant paragraph as it's hard to follow and easy to get lost. Cheers and thanks.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
You sound like a good albeit lucky man Doug, thanks for sharing.
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
Noah D you may be tougher than Werner but you are not even half the man Werner is or isn't.

Holdplease2

Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
Doug, every climbing partnership, even the best ones, have times of horrible communication, clashing styles, and occasional all out war on the wall, eventually. (cept for maybe those ultrafast organized speedy types)

What you guys experienced from an interpersonal standpoint probably isn't that much different from what all of us who have been up there a lot experience at one time or another.

Folks who have not been buried under a pile of gear with pigs dangling a full rope length in space and 200 feet of traversing ground to clean at 12:30 in the AM will question your judgement on staying put. People who know what you are talking about because they have been there likely will not.

Running for the summit when it is truly in reach can be wise. Running for the summit when it is *not* truly in reach can be a death sentence, and has been for others on el cap at the same time of year under similar circumstances.

For you, it doesn't sound like it was within reach at that time

The thing that makes your experience extraordinary is that in your case the kind of clusterf*#k misscommunicaton bullshit that happens on el cap all the damn time resulted in you being not only left alone to solve the *team* problems and then basically abandoned and then almost dying.

We were on the wall when u were up there , it got to below freezing INSIDE my bibler tent that night and we were 800 feet lower than you. You should be quite pleased you survived, I am sure you are.

Kate

thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 21, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
Thank you for posting Doug.

We each made our decisions and now we have to live with them.




Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
  Nov 22, 2012 - 02:13am PT
Any time you can get advice from Kate, you should listen to it. She's solid and not ego driven.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
  Nov 22, 2012 - 05:33am PT
The strong protect the weak, whether it be on a mountain, at sea, or in combat. If you believe otherwise, well you fail basic humanity. You failed your partner, but you know that. Do better with the rest of your life...it's a tough lesson.
Silver

Gym climber
  Nov 22, 2012 - 11:08am PT
Doug thanks for filling in the blanks.

Luke listen to Kate


ST poster who bashed the crap out of Luke take note of Kate's post. She never once made him wrong or bad she never once made Doug wrong or bad she delivered some solid advice and that is how we should treat each other.
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
  Nov 23, 2012 - 12:58am PT
I appreciate Doug telling his side of things. This thread has been nagging at me because the story just didn't make sense to me. Clearer picture coming into view here. Seems like both climbers learned a lot.

Doug wrote:
No i was not needing to be calmed down because i was mad at being abandonned,i was pissed that luke did not come back as planned, not so much that he left, i was embarrassed to have been rescued.

OP wrote:
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work.

Two extremely different points of view. You've both commented on rhythm, gelling, etc. Personality and perspective definitely come into play on El Cap.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
  Nov 23, 2012 - 01:43am PT
There are a lot of things the guys could have done differently and there's probably some blame in there if somebody needs that.

But I'm mostly struck that despite all, these two guys are civil about each other and the situation and admitting they made mistakes in a humble way.

That's not always Supertaco SOP so I tip my hat to you and imagine both of you have grown from the experience.

And if Luke's not even 18 year, well it will be years before society even trusts him to drink an Ol' E so some screwing up is expected.

Pain makes man think, thought makes man wise, Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

Peace

Karl
TheSoloClimber

Trad climber
Vancouver
  Nov 23, 2012 - 10:36am PT
Society doesn't even trust Luke to drink coffee, much less a beer!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
  Nov 27, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
http://www.nps.gov/yose/blogs/Rescue-from-Muir-Wall-on-El-Capitan.htm
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Nov 27, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Nice find Baba. Thanks for that.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
  Nov 28, 2012 - 12:38am PT
fukking hilarious: Mark* and Peter*

who were rescued by Dosar*, led (?) by Berner*


Studly

Trad climber
WA
  Nov 28, 2012 - 12:45am PT
Wishing both Doug and Luke the best. A lesson in it for us all.
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
  Nov 28, 2012 - 01:49am PT
This all reminds me of that soap opera As the joint burns.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 28, 2012 - 09:29am PT


-Bags on top before the crux, GETTING THEM DOWN! *Tom Evans PHOTO*

Thankfully Jim, Joel Aislinn, Evan and Jasmin all chipped in some effort.
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
  Nov 28, 2012 - 09:27am PT
Sweet pic, Kid.
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
  Nov 29, 2012 - 03:41am PT
I just talked to homeland security Luke, and you are now on the "no fly list". It's for your own good. Sorry buddy.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Nov 29, 2012 - 10:01am PT
Noah- correction; Werner WAS a BAMF(badassmotherfuker), now he's a BFM
(bigfukinmeanie).

Bruce- they're not even letting me into Walmart.
melski

Trad climber
bytheriver
  Dec 9, 2012 - 04:44pm PT
werner;s a dick,,werner;s a dick,,,toooo funny,,,thats OK,,he;s still got his guitar,,,we;all love ya ,
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
  Dec 9, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
A thread on Robbins' 1969 solo ascent:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=732192&msg=732204#msg732204
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Dec 9, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
Thanks for the link Rick!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
  Dec 10, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
Doug- Could you explain why you weren't able to free up the second lead line at your highpoint.

Your description above says "I had just started to haul when Luke calls down and asked if I could tag him the other lead line,well no i couldn't it was my anchor."

The current fashion of knotted rope belay stations may have caused some trouble here preventing the use of an additional rope in the problem solving. A station built with slings to connect everything together doesn't require committing a lead rope while hauling.

One other point about this area of El Cap. The Turning Point goes through the middle of the photo above directly below the bag team.The orange flake/ledge right of center on the bottom is a spot I called the Point of Caring where it seemed for a short while that I might have run out of options that close to finishing my 14 day solo effort!

My drilling gear was totally screwed up by the end of the route and I was forced to place a drilled angle which stuck well out from the surface. This really needs to be pulled out and replaced with a conventional bolt as I fear it has been catching people's haul lines on the traversing pitches creating a hassle. Somebody please fix this mess if it hasn't already been corrected. It is the only blemish on this fine route.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
  Dec 10, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
Hi Steve-we had 2 lead lines,Luke started rope soloing 31 and 32 while i was cleaning 29 and 30 witch were linked as well,the first lead line was used as the anchor at belay 30 [kntted rope anchor as oposed to cordalette or slings] and Luke was using the second on 31/32-they were joined approx 10 feet off the anchor.even if the tag line were not stuck i would not have been able to get him the rope anyway as i could not free it untill hauling then releasing the bags and cleaning past the joining knot.I dont quoite understand why Luke couldn't rap/down jumar etc. to fix the tag line-it was never discussed-hope this helps its a complicated area-we were not communicating-Luke was in a hurry
Doug
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
  Dec 10, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
Thanks Doug!

Summit fever makes for some strange decisions looking back...

The belay should be a stand alone system so that the ropes can easily be separated from it, IMO.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
  Dec 10, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
thanks Steve-i couldn't agree more-
RP3

Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
  Dec 10, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
Steve,

I rappelled by that area while doing some mapping work up there last summer. I could see Turning Point but I never saw any drilled angles.


-Roger Putnam
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Dec 11, 2012 - 12:42am PT
No duh,I was in a hurry, there was a full fledge winter storm about to ransack the area. We had the opportunity to get out before the storm devastated.

Steve as far as your question as to why he couldn't tag me up the other lead, if the tag line had not been stuck.

I actually asked for the other end to be tagged up which there should have been 50m left over behind where he was tied in. For some reason Doug seems to be implying this was an unreasonable request.

I felt severely exposed without a rope up the last third class pitch to the summit, a pitch that might not be climbable with snow on it. (McHale - this is what I was scared of.)

I also felt my judgement was severely disrespected when Doug rejected my instruction to leave the bags where they were and jug out. He implied in his story that he couldn't jug out until he was done hauling, but that was actually a choice.

This appears to have all the necessary ingredients to qualify as a big wall epic complete with bad weather, personality conflicts and egregious errors in judgement.

My judgement was based on my experiences with wall climbing and winter storms(together and independently). Me being the only one of us with physical wall climbing experience(other then the 30pitches up until that point) you'd think the less experienced partner would respect that.

Warning hypothetical situation analysis



So had Doug followed my instruction to leave the bags(where ever they hung) and start jugging out would have been able to free the tag line with in minutes (it was stuck 10m to the left of him and the first move is a 6-8m lower out), he would have at that point have been able to tag up the entire primary lead line(the primary line was attached the the secondary 2-3m left of the anchor).

With the spare line available I would then have easily been able to fix a line safely to the haul anchor, then to the summit. Which would have dramatically reduced the vulnerability of our position.

We could then made to decision to either bail for the valley, or do a tiny rap back to belay 30 and got the bags up to 32.

Nov 20, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
Yeah, it's not like he really ditched him. I'm serious here. Perhaps things turned out as good as they could have for these guys.

**warning big f*#king meanie alert**

So today's lessons for those of you who want to learn something;

1) If you want to get out there on those big complicated routes - Start small and work your way up not skipping any steps or grades make sure your partner has done the same

2) Reading Hudon trip reports is not a valid substitute for experience.

3) 30 pitches up a wall is not the place to dispute the hierarchy of your climbing partnership

4) There is no shame in leaving your bags on the wall if it's the safest option available. Unless either SAR gets involved or you don't return to retrieve it.


ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
  Dec 11, 2012 - 02:19am PT
Lesson 5: Don't climb with you.

You maybe had a freaked out partner and opted to complicate things with short fixing, blah blah blah instead of doing a couple of quick pitches without hauling. When that didn't work out you hiked down to the valley with your partner still on the wall?? Maybe instead go back down and help? I know folks are cutting you some slack for whatever reason but to me what you did is indefensible. Oh gosh it got scary isn't much of a reason to leave someone hanging.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Author's Reply  Dec 11, 2012 - 02:27am PT
Great points ontheedge.

Lesson 5 is key for everyone's safety.

Glad you walked away with something this evening.

Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
  Dec 11, 2012 - 02:51am PT
Whoa.

Toad makes a strong case.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
  Dec 11, 2012 - 04:38am PT
This reminds me of the thread where a guy left his dog up at 13000 feet

Not saying who is right or wrong, There are circumstances on both sides.

Definitively sympathize with leaving that night but dont' get the lack of quick follow-up in the morning

Peace

Karl
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
  Dec 11, 2012 - 10:10am PT
Holy crap...after all this, you haven't really learned anything have you?
RP3

Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
  Dec 11, 2012 - 10:13am PT
2) Reading Hudon trip reports is not a valid substitute for experience.

HAHAHHAA
RyanD

climber
Squamish
  Jun 5, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Bump for climbing & ST drama at the same time.
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El Capitan - Muir Wall A2 5.9 - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click to Enlarge
The Muir Wall is one of El Cap's greatest natural lines.
Photo: Tom Frost
Other Routes on El Capitan
El Capitan - The Nose 5.14a or 5.9 C2 - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click for details.
The Nose, 5.14a or 5.9 C2
El Capitan
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The Nose—the best rock climb in the world!
El Capitan - Zodiac A2 5.7 - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click for details.
Zodiac, A2 5.7
El Capitan
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1800' of fantastic climbing.
El Capitan - Salathe Wall 5.13b or 5.9 C2 - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click for details.
Salathe Wall, 5.13b or 5.9 C2
El Capitan
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The Salathé Wall ascends the most natural line up El Cap.
El Capitan - Lurking Fear C2F 5.7 - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click for details.
Lurking Fear, C2F 5.7
El Capitan
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Lurking Fear is route number 1.
El Capitan - East Buttress 5.10b - Yosemite Valley, California USA. Click for details.
East Buttress, 5.10b
El Capitan
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East Buttress with top of The Nose on left.
More routes on El Capitan