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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Skip that is utterly tragically sad. All political differences aside I feel for you and your wife and commend you on your efforts. With respect Phil.
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jstan
climber
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Skip:
You and your lovely wife are absolute wonders. I can't find adequate words to say.
My very best,
John
Thanks much RJ. I did not know most of what you just explained.
My only comment is that I need to stand behind anything I say. If I say something foolish, then I was foolish. It happens.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Skip,
I am at a loss for words. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings and I accept your apology as well. You are right, I can be arrogant and offensive, but only because I have been attacked. It is not in my nature to be mean for no reason.
It is truly an honorable thing you are doing for that child and I have strong respect for you after reading your story.
I'm not trying to be the king of anything, here. I'm just trying to have fun, climb a lot and read stories and look at pictures of people doing the same. You are right that I have a lot to learn. But that is the nature of human beings. We're always learning and that has and always will be one of my goals in life; to keep learning and growing.
Thanks for changing your tack. I respond well to this form of communication. Good luck with everything, especially Jenean.
And Jstan - i think this is what you're looking for
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=973910&tn=120
Peace
Edris
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Whatever happened to the supertopo debasement?
Is it possible that such diverse groups of jerks, right and left, are actually noble human beings under cloak of individual conditioned perspectives, and subject to being irritable and losing their balance?
My experience meeting so many supertopo people in person is that we are a fine bunch of human beings and it's just that being human makes us subject to going a bit sideways now and then. That's when a bit of love and understanding and be healing. (I know some of you are puking on your keyboards now)
Love ya'll! Much respect
Karl
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 01:23am PT
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I never, ever suggested anything but consideration in the OP - just a reminder.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Not saying we don't get debased from time to time and a reminder to be considerate is often in order.
It's just that we don't suck to the core, our sucking is only skin deep!
Peace
Karl
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 02:08am PT
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OK, I must admit the larger implication of debasement. I just meant that the demeaning aspect takes away from the larger element of us each considering our understanding of each other here. Each post either creates or demeans communication.
You decide. Karl is my example - who is yours?
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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we're ALL bouncy here...
:)
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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One of the side effects of the debasement, especially when personal attacks happen, is that it scares some potential posters from participating and that is a form of censorship. I don't think saying that you need to have a thick skin is a reasonable answer. Civility to the others who participate in this forum is the real solution.
Bruce
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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this here is a little party,
b.y.o.b.s.
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
Seldom do we encounter something that is all bad. You had a lot to do with bringing to the surface what is happening here. You are due some thanks.
John
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Pate,
I am sorry, but people not posting because they are afraid of being attacked is censorship. They are prevented from expressing themselves because they fear recrimination. It does not have to be a physical barrier for it to be censorship. And as I stated in my original posting, saying that people just need to have a thick skin is not acceptable. Civility is the answer. There is no need in any discussion here on Super Topo to resort to threats, name-calling or any sort of personal attack.
Bruce
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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this here is a little party, b.y.o.b.s.
Bring my own Boy Scout? Just what kind of party are we talking about here? Would it be okay if I brought an alter boy instead?
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jstan
climber
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I believe it was Newton who hypothesized that for every action there is a reaction. This seems one of those.
Censorship is that situation wherein some one does not get to voice their opinion till AFTER someone else has approved it.
Such has not happened here, and I seriously doubt it ever will.
The question posed here seems to be this. When we choose to express ourselves we should also be freed of all concerns as to the reactions of others.
That idea reeks of censorship.
Speak first and you may suppress the opinions of ALL others on the matter.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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I thought I'd post this for some of you who might get a laugh out of it. It is funny to me.
My first thread was the "new climber: please suggest resources" thread and JStan had this to say as his first posting on that thread.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=908347&tn=32
Just a little something to laugh about on hump-day Wednesday.
Edit: It's Thursday. My days are running together...yikes.
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
My first encounter with yourself came in response to your very first post. Yours was an open handed and frank request for assistance. As a way of welcoming you I responded as I did.
Now I hate to tell you but I am not perfect and neither are you. That is a given. But in our desire to be more perfect we need to respond when anyone begins saying things, without thinking, that damage us all.
If we say nothing that is acquiescence.
You won't do that and neither will we.
Time to start over, I think.
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
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Ummm...dude? It's Thursday - hope that helps.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Yea, yea. It's Thursday, I know duh right? I'm caught in the subsistence of "at risk" status(read: pretty much unemployed) at work, and the school days all run together, whoops!
Jstan, I just thought it was funny and ironic. That first thread got a lot of responses and I never thought I'd actually meet a lot of the people that responded to me.
Either way, a very funny look back at your initial response and our initial meeting. Perhaps first impressions aren't always right. Or perhaps, we're all not perfect and sometimes we piss some people off.
Happy THURSday!
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
I do appreciate your response.
One last point raised by your response. It will sound like nit-picking but it really isn't. It's very important.
"we piss some people off."
At no time was I pissed off. I did not do any stamping around and swearing. When a person gets mad they lose the ability to do that which is most effective. Judgment suffers.
Anger is the functional equivalent of admitting defeat.
I'll repeat that.
Anger is the functional equivalent of admitting defeat.
Many times in the past I have been hit pretty hard, just as we all get hit.
The problems were all made solvable simply by staying cool.
PS:
This last is something rock climbers have to know.
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