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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 2, 2009 - 01:54pm PT
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As climber's we like to discuss many topics, we have a huge range of interests and opinions among us.
Some topics, however, seem to really take away from this board, causing rifts, exciting prejudices and chafing emotional and psychological sensitivities.
I would just ask that you really consider if your Original Post (OP) is going to contribute in a positive way towards the content of this board, or whether it might be better off in a spray forum on one of many other climbing websites.
Erik
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Imagine the horror of going an entire week without starting a new thread...
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apogee
climber
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If you are referring to the 'skinny chicks' or 'skinny dicks' threads, I'm right there with you.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Carrot cake?!?! Only liberals and commie pricks like carrot cake!!!
Pass the APPLE PIE!! You know...as in, American as APPLE PIE!!
Commie...
Ed
(the above was humor)
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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What goes on in da basement stays in da basement.
"It put's the lotion on the skin!"
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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I keep de gimp in debasement.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Censorship is Unamerican. But it's also your right to confront your accuser. If you're going to call someone stupid or a moron you should use your real name, not some avatar. Cut down on a lot of crap.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Do you guys really equate this with censorship?
I would just ask that you really consider if your Original Post (OP) is going to contribute in a positive way towards the content of this board, or whether it might be better off in a spray forum on one of many other climbing websites.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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HD, it depends on whether you're a 'boulder climber', 'trad climber', 'sport climber' in your profile...
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jstan
climber
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"Do you guys really equate this with censorship?"
What Eric proposes is censorship if you assume only the first person to speak has freedom of speech.
If B does not appreciate what A has said, B has an equal right to challenge A on any ground B chooses.
That's freedom of speech.
So Eric is supporting this freedom, not challenging it.
The real question here is are we using ST simply for entertainment? There may be some people who find dissing other people to be "entertainment."
Those who are not seeking just entertainment may be trying to use ST for some purpose.
I have no idea what purpose is being pursued in the chicks thread nor in the near infinite number of Woodfords threads. The number of Woodfords threads does suggest some sort of marketting is afoot.
It should not be necessary for me to state my purpose after posting for three years or so. But I'll state my purpose here.
I have seen the incredible successes that can be achieved when a group of people facing really serious problems, begin to discuss their options in a mature manner.
If I can be of assistance in helping ST play a role in such discussions, I'll try to do so.
Where I fail to serve that purpose, I hope to be criticized.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Pate,
"I've seen and appreciated and even participated in in the climbing world since I jumped in the game"
with people that you know? or people that you don't know with display to the general public and land managers, etc.
just thoughts... along the lines of what jstan is saying.
cheers,
M
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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What Eric proposes is censorship if you assume only the first person to speak has freedom of speech.
If B does not appreciate what A has said, B has an equal right to challenge A on any ground B chooses.
We -- that is us 21st Century humans -- have an option that was not available around the traditional campfire. At that campfire, if I was talking and you didn't like what I was saying, you could:
* Leave the campfire,
* Confront me by telling me to shut up or by arguing with me, or
* Suffer
But here on the retardnet you have a fourth option: Don't click on my thread.
Regarding thread drift, or the pollution of "good" threads by "bad" people, well, we're still kinda stuck. But Eric was talking about original posts, and that's different. Up to a point, I'm with him in spirit. That is, there are plenty of threads that I wish had never been started. But since my criteria for acceptability are different from his (and yours, and hers, and those other guys), we come up against a real problem: Who gets to decide what is an acceptable thread and what isn't?
Best solution, so far at least, is not to click on whatever falls into your "unacceptable" category.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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I think you meant "The Basement of Supertopo".
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jstan
climber
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Don't get me wrong. I am aware there is something called "good fun."
Is pontificating as to whether fat girls can climb 5.12 "good fun?"
Really?..Really?..Really?
If one were to be nasty the possibility of asking whether the speaker can lead real (not bolt assisted) 5.12 comes to mind. But I would never be that nasty. This whole rating thing is absolute BS.
Peter Haan has me slack lining in pink tights because I argue for standing up on the inside foot.
Now that is a crystal clear example of "bad fun."
Even without the tights I look like shyte.
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sully
Trad climber
CA
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I think Tami's small d*** thread was on behalf of we females on the taco who took offense to the macho bragging threads that mason and zip posted. Tit for tat.
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Come on now. What's a good forum without a fishing expedition now and again? I think what we've got around here is a case of a bunch of fishermen not knowing the game and a BUNCH of fish that are too dumb to recognize bait/hook.
pc - never could get the hang of fly casting, so ended up just be a junk tosser.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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contribute in a positive way ? dude that cancels out like 90% of my threads ;-)
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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I fully agree with Mister E, Mike, , et al.
A little discretion goes a long way. See ya!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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You needn't take it any further, sir. You've proved to me that all this off topic and inflammatory posting is wrong, wrong, and terribly wrong. I've learned my lesson, sir. I've seen now what I've never seen before. I'm cured! Praise god!
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Sully,
Can you please tell me how my thread could be considered a macho bragging thread?
I was merely asking whether people prefer to date younger or older.
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jstan
climber
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"Ok jstan - talking about fat girls climbing 5.12 is unacceptable but chicks and dicks is ok??"
You are just being dense Mason305. Tami was protesting your thread.
No cigar.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Hmmmm...
Off topic, offensive, degrading???
I dunno, but I just ate an Ice Cream Cone that suddenly got real crunchy only to find out it was a finger.
Should I write a trip report?
"There I was.... At the ice cream stand, fifty feet from my car, no pro...."
It's the taco stand, what do you expect?
I'll bet that makes sense to anyone.
Get it?????
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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"NO -:) "
Yup, you get it...
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jstan
climber
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"Why Climbing was so good in the beginning is still true. That it allowed escape from the sourpusses who could only follow the rules."
I think that was true for some people certainly. But you know
I have never heard of a second letting the leader go and then saying, "I just thought I would break that rule."
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jstan
climber
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Not at all Pate. I usually try to leave a little bit for the reader to do.
I feel it is rather insulting to spell everything out as though no one has a brain.
The point is that not all rules are equal. You can break some rules without doing any damage.
Others you cannot.
Each person has to use their judgement deciding which is which.
As in most things, we are back to individual judgement.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Freedom of speech isn't negated by the wisdom of how to use it.
Choosing to consider the experience and sensitivities of the community in how you express yourself is compassion. The question is where do you draw the lines for yourself and when do you offer negative feedback for other's expressions? Sometimes we make mistakes or get tired of self-restraint.
So we talk about it and try to get straight with our peeps.
Thats what this thread seems about. good thing
Peace
Karl
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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What a concept, a thread about climbing!!!!
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jstan
climber
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Once past April 15 I have, as a rule, never considered the gray suits in making a decision. It is the black or blue suits one should worry about.
Jim, Pate what I wrote can be applied to all decisions and is not trivial.
It is about the basis for society.
Perhaps it will help to return again to the initial extreme case.
Can't have a climber's society if seconds feel free to drop the leader when the mood hits them.
You can still have a climber's society when a few people insist on using goldline.
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jstan
climber
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Webbing swamis??
But really you have to admit don't you. A wide red swami looks elegantly like a cumberbund. Very dashing particularly when accoutered also with a bow tie.
Start the Nose in that rig and you'll be on the front page of the Fresno Bee for sure.
Jim, I was posing a hypothetical situation where a second just decides not to belay the falling leader, hence Pate's immediate response. I needed an extreme case and that is definitely extreme.
Every day we get the feeling the decisions we make have no impact on our ability to function together as a group. The extreme case showed one instance where what we decide to do clearly has an effect.
Every decision we make each day requires judgement to decide when our gain justifies any loss of our ability to act as a society and to support each other.
It is a really tough and important tradeoff.
The crux is always to be aware a tradeoff is being made.
Sorry to go on at length. I did not do a very good job.
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2009 - 01:09am PT
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Thanks Jstan, Karl for understanding, and Mimi for lighting the fire under my ass to put this out there!
Just consider that not everyone has your tough skin, and be willing to laugh at yourself most importantly, and others.
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jstan
climber
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Were it not for humor
we all would have to be placed in restraints.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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ok many posts are made in ridiculously poor taste. and better yet, those who dish it out are the most offended when it returns to them. but it has been ultimately boring on this forum since the LEB debacle. I really miss all that. And I miss her posts that riled up so many and yet added so much.
LOL. Imagine her posts on dick size.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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What was the LEB debacle?
And Rokjox, I did learn a lot of valuable stuff about wolves from your thread.
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hooblie
climber
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"lord of the flies" debacle or exercise in community organization? in order to form a more perfect union...LEB, graciously emoliated herself
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Rokjox wrote:
LEB was cool. And true to herself. I respect that, and I miss her too.
Howweird of you to suggest she's no longer posting
(like, duh).
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2009 - 04:29pm PT
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Yes, because there is just not enough crass, masculine, juvenile behavior in the world! Good thinkin'!
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jstan
climber
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mason805
Oct 2, 2009 - 05:30pm PT
Wow!!!
Ok jstan - talking about fat girls climbing 5.12 is unacceptable but chicks and dicks is ok??
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/973650/fat_dicks_or_skinny_dicks
Let's be real, here.
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jstan
Oct 2, 2009 - 08:19pm PT
"Ok jstan - talking about fat girls climbing 5.12 is unacceptable but chicks and dicks is ok??"
You are just being dense Mason305. Tami was protesting your thread.
No cigar.
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Tami
Oct 2, 2009 - 11:40pm PT
Oh, and I did NOT draw that. I can't draw that well.
I don't like when guys talk about fat chiks or skinny chix c'os it SUCKS.
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mason805
Oct 3, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
JStan I'm not being dense. I'm just being observant of your biases towards Tami. If you don't have a problem with the tiny dicks thread, all good, man! Viagra's cool with me, that's why they invented it for you more mature guys!
And, it's totally cool that you have a crush on Tami. You ain't gotsta lie, Craig!
-----------------
Still no cigar Craig.
You stepped in it again.
You really need to take a hard look at your tendency to use personal attacks.
You make no friends that way.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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I am not attacking anyone. I am merely joking around.
Yikes! You guys really need to relax.
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
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Main Entry: fat·u·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-chü-əs, -tyü-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin fatuus foolish
Date: 1633
: complacently or inanely foolish : silly
synonyms see simple
edit: you are right, Mason - it was Miriam-Webster. Near miss.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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got me a movie
i want you to know
slicing up eyeballs
i want you to know
girlie so groovy
i want you to know
don't know about you
but i am un chien andalusia
i am un chien andalusia
i am un chien andalusia
i am un chien andalusia
wanna grow
up to be
be a debaser, (debaser)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B44g3ijhtjQ
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jstan
climber
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"Viagra's cool with me, that's why they invented it for you more mature guys!
And, it's totally cool that you have a crush on Tami. You ain't gotsta lie, Craig!"
Oh, I need to check. Have you now given up on your claim Tami was not protesting your thread?
Jus checking.
As we go through your squirming it would be nice to know if any progress has been made.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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mason805 wrote:
I am ok with not being part of an all white supremacist network of old school rock climbers who don't allow non-white climbers into their ranks and treat them like outcasts at social gatherings like meatfest. And then attack them afterwards from behind the comfort of their computer.
WTF?
Do tell...
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jstan
climber
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"9. If you were offended by my viagra joke, it was just a joke. I take it back!
10. I am ok with not being part of an all white supremacist network of old school rock climbers who don't allow non-white climbers into their ranks and treat them like outcasts at social gatherings like meatfest. And then attack them afterwards from behind the comfort of their computer.
Any other questions?
Edit: And now we've got the girlfriend attacking me too! Did someone say something about personal attacks????"
We now have several new opportunities for taking something back.
Where would you like to start?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Pffft.
Dude, It's the InfernoNet you're on here.
Relax, maybe sometimes, too?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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jstan
climber
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I'm having fun. It is always the ideas.
Suddenly it is clear how political texts are composed nowadays. You inscribe emotionally laden words on small wooden blocks and toss them all into an empty cement mixer. Then you pour them out onto a table. However they end up on the table is your final text.
That's it.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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What have I done in my short climbing career? Hmm well, considering I just started climbing in July of 2009 and I just lead my first yosemite 5.8 at Bishop's Terrace last weekend only two months later
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=969780&tn=70
I'd say I've gotten a good start. Stay tuned for more action coming soon to a theater near you.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Indeed. Pull hard, & much, Mason.
Hear No Haters.
Just go, & go like all Hell. Yowza.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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I wasn't invited, either.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Looks to me like mason is full of shít.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Mean.
The Dude means no harm. Why so mean?
This is the bro you haven't met yet. Maybe.
Bridges to enlightenment?
Maybe knott.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Well, I'll knott join a mob, then.
Thanks & good evening, Lady.
I'm just sayin' that folks talk all kinds of crap, all the time.
Lot of it ain't meant like it sounds.
I reserve judgement on folks until I actually hang out with them.
Virtually, not so much.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Jim - thank you. One day for sure, and until then I'll keep pushing my limits on those shitty little 5.8s. And, no way. Screw the media!
Pate - It sure felt like it haha! Does that count?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I was looking back over Mason's posts and the vast majority, until lately, have actually been about climbing and pretty supportive of everyone.
It seems to me that the brother made some social blunders, got called on things and now is acting like somebody backed in a corner.
Let it go man, it's not your best angels. Let folks get to know you before you walk into OK corral with guns blazing.
Peace
Karl
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jstan
climber
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On another topic, but not really.
In the Gunks and other places in the East during the early 70's we had 5.10's. That was it. What we were doing at the time is now called 5.12 but you know what. We did not once talk about what numerical grade to put on those climbs. We did have great fun talking about the precise challenges each climb presented and listening to John Bragg explain the foot jam he found that permitted Kansas City to go. When I was asked what moderately horrible climb I would do that day, I always said I thought a horribly moderate climb was the more likely.
It is time to face it. Our fascination with numbers is a sickness. We use it to trivialise the climbing experience and we use it to degrade the relations we have with each other.
Mason is sick because we are sick. How else are we to explain someone new to climbing who feels upon leading about the easiest climbing in Yosemite to volunteer the opinion that fat girls can't lead 5.12? With this little experience the sickness is there for us all to see. He even says
“10. I am ok with not being part of an all white supremacist network of old school rock climbers who don't allow non-white climbers into their ranks and treat them like outcasts at social gatherings like Facelift. And then attack them afterwards from behind the comfort of their computer.”
This is a reaction to the structure he perceives and into which he is trying so desperately to fit when he announces he has led a 5.x climb.
Granted, willfully ridiculing one group of people or another without cause is reprehensible. So we need to reprehense it. But don’t miss the nice way that trait has fitted into the mode of thought promoted by our silly grading system. We are like the living cell which presents a docking port into which a wandering virus fits so very nicely.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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So what's wrong with deBasement? It's much cooler than deAttic.
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jstan
climber
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Alright Philo.
The wiseasses like you have to sit up in the front row of seats.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Well Ok if you say so. But only if the teacher doesn't froth spittle on my peechee.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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right on, Pate. climbing for it's own sake is nearly lost to the enterprise of rate, claim and publish. My friend H found a hob nail laying on the ground on one of our trips to the High Sierra..also some old ring pins, just keeps it all in perspective.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Thanks Karl - you're right. I was lynched by a mob of angry people in what really became a major bitchfest as noted by Hankster
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=975675&msg=975772#msg975772
I'm completely over it and I'm not too worried about skippy. As Rokjox observed, skipster pretty much posted on here for 24 hours straight from Saturday to Sunday. This forum seems to be the only thing he or she has really got and that in itself is a sad thing.
Anyway, I thought I had met some of these fine folks at the facelift, but I sure hope I haven't met all of them because if they are the only ones there are to meet, then I'm SOL because I don't think I'll be able to find too many partners in their bunch. The climbing community is a lot bigger in my perspective than what people may have me believe. And I think that's a good thing, because it opens up the possibility of meeting really real, down-to-earth people who aren't pretentious and have ulterior agendas.
Am I sorry about my comment about white supremacists? You betcha! It was a knee-jerk reaction to being cornered and I can honestly say I enjoyed meeting JElezarian, Lynne, Ed H, Tim (ontheedge?), Jeff, Phyllis, Crowley, and many more whose names slip my mind. I made sure to introduce myself with a smile to anyone and everyone there at the facelift but I'm sure the feeling may not have been mutual with some people. But hey, you know, you can't please all the people all the time. And I'm ok with that.
Happy Monday, folks! It's chilly out there so bundle up. Fall is upon us! And yes, I'm going to Vegas, baby!!
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Pate you crack me up.
You are funny guy.
Edit: You're right. I hope my response doesn't trigger another shitstorm!
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Yeah locker, like you aren't prejudice towards me, cuz
I look better in woman's undergarments than you do?
Whatever..........
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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I'm not trying to compete with superpowers. I am just trying to hold my own against a mob of people pissed off about a fat chick thread.
Sorry about the thread. It was a joke thread and it's gone.
I come in peace.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Moral of the story here?
Never piss off a woman, fat or otherwise.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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You going to Indian Rock tonight, Mason?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Wow!!! Look what I missed over the weekend.
Geez, y'all should go out and climb together....
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Tami - everyone...i mean EVERYONE knows what type of pecker a woman prefers. Seriously, come on...i feel objectified.
Pate - thanks man. I'm the first generation born here in the US so those Afghani genes are not that far removed but I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong. And, like I said in my previous post, I can't make all the people happy all the time, but i'll do my best either way.
And as long as the Union has benefits, I'll join!
Jan - you're right about that. Man, are you right about that.
Jaybro - nope can't make it. I won't be getting over to Indian Rock in the evenings for a while. Sorry about the thread nuke. I think I went a little overboard with the nukes =/ You guys can create a new one anyway, right? It'll be like a fresh start!
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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OK, OK, OK, it's puttin' the lotion on the skin!
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Tami - here I thought we were on the verge of a breakthrough.
Huggles.
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jstan
climber
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I would there was a breakthrough.
But alas:
"I'm completely over it and I'm not too worried about skippy. As Rokjox observed, skipster pretty much posted on here for 24 hours straight from Saturday to Sunday. This forum seems to be the only thing he or she has really got and that in itself is a sad thing. He talks like he's probably got a soul patch too and you know what some people have said about soul patches, and heck you've even got old timers like Jaybro agreeing. "
For some, ridicule is a reflexive response.
Yes we can call it fun. It is a fun designed to be enjoyed by only one however.
By the time of australopithecus we were bipedal in open country( 1,000,000 years after Ardi) and we depended upon the help of our friends help to fight off the big cats.
Now that we no longer need each other for anything we can enjoy ridicule.
Sweet progress.
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jstan
climber
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Ah DMT, DMT.
With Mason805's help the e-community has just been knocking on your front door. That community just got back from a huge effort to integrate itself with the community in Yosemite.
As for the lipstick by the door when I first posted I decided the mistakes I would surely be making must be answered for directly by me. Avatars are silly IMO.
No one can hide for long.
Hardly anyone even tries.
Edit:
You would have had a great time Dingus.
Elsewhere I posted that Walt Ford volunteered he had been coming to Yosemite for 60 years and it was only because of Facelift that he finally got to stay in C4.
That is something climbers need to think on.
We have absolutely no idea how large our community actually is.
The group of people who care about the things we care about is huge.
What should we expect Mason805 (Craig?) to do?
He might just say, "Yeah, that thread was pretty shitty. Sorry about that."
That's all.
No biggie.
Edit:
So that I will not be seen as piling on in the hug fest I will put an apology due here.
When I first read Dingus' post above a small voice said, "What ave we ere?" But I ignored it.
The truth is since the very beginning of this medium Dingus has worked hard and long toward the realization of community. His body of work has no equal.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sorry to hear about Jenean, Skip. She's in good hands, my prayers are sent.
Sad stuff.... God bless her!
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Now where's my Auto Trader?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Circle K Crack Whore
5.11c - Enhanced
10 Bolts placed on rappel
Between Quick Draw and Falcon and Snowman
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Skip that is utterly tragically sad. All political differences aside I feel for you and your wife and commend you on your efforts. With respect Phil.
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jstan
climber
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Skip:
You and your lovely wife are absolute wonders. I can't find adequate words to say.
My very best,
John
Thanks much RJ. I did not know most of what you just explained.
My only comment is that I need to stand behind anything I say. If I say something foolish, then I was foolish. It happens.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Skip,
I am at a loss for words. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings and I accept your apology as well. You are right, I can be arrogant and offensive, but only because I have been attacked. It is not in my nature to be mean for no reason.
It is truly an honorable thing you are doing for that child and I have strong respect for you after reading your story.
I'm not trying to be the king of anything, here. I'm just trying to have fun, climb a lot and read stories and look at pictures of people doing the same. You are right that I have a lot to learn. But that is the nature of human beings. We're always learning and that has and always will be one of my goals in life; to keep learning and growing.
Thanks for changing your tack. I respond well to this form of communication. Good luck with everything, especially Jenean.
And Jstan - i think this is what you're looking for
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=973910&tn=120
Peace
Edris
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Whatever happened to the supertopo debasement?
Is it possible that such diverse groups of jerks, right and left, are actually noble human beings under cloak of individual conditioned perspectives, and subject to being irritable and losing their balance?
My experience meeting so many supertopo people in person is that we are a fine bunch of human beings and it's just that being human makes us subject to going a bit sideways now and then. That's when a bit of love and understanding and be healing. (I know some of you are puking on your keyboards now)
Love ya'll! Much respect
Karl
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 01:23am PT
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I never, ever suggested anything but consideration in the OP - just a reminder.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Not saying we don't get debased from time to time and a reminder to be considerate is often in order.
It's just that we don't suck to the core, our sucking is only skin deep!
Peace
Karl
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 02:08am PT
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OK, I must admit the larger implication of debasement. I just meant that the demeaning aspect takes away from the larger element of us each considering our understanding of each other here. Each post either creates or demeans communication.
You decide. Karl is my example - who is yours?
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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we're ALL bouncy here...
:)
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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One of the side effects of the debasement, especially when personal attacks happen, is that it scares some potential posters from participating and that is a form of censorship. I don't think saying that you need to have a thick skin is a reasonable answer. Civility to the others who participate in this forum is the real solution.
Bruce
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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this here is a little party,
b.y.o.b.s.
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
Seldom do we encounter something that is all bad. You had a lot to do with bringing to the surface what is happening here. You are due some thanks.
John
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Pate,
I am sorry, but people not posting because they are afraid of being attacked is censorship. They are prevented from expressing themselves because they fear recrimination. It does not have to be a physical barrier for it to be censorship. And as I stated in my original posting, saying that people just need to have a thick skin is not acceptable. Civility is the answer. There is no need in any discussion here on Super Topo to resort to threats, name-calling or any sort of personal attack.
Bruce
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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this here is a little party, b.y.o.b.s.
Bring my own Boy Scout? Just what kind of party are we talking about here? Would it be okay if I brought an alter boy instead?
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jstan
climber
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I believe it was Newton who hypothesized that for every action there is a reaction. This seems one of those.
Censorship is that situation wherein some one does not get to voice their opinion till AFTER someone else has approved it.
Such has not happened here, and I seriously doubt it ever will.
The question posed here seems to be this. When we choose to express ourselves we should also be freed of all concerns as to the reactions of others.
That idea reeks of censorship.
Speak first and you may suppress the opinions of ALL others on the matter.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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I thought I'd post this for some of you who might get a laugh out of it. It is funny to me.
My first thread was the "new climber: please suggest resources" thread and JStan had this to say as his first posting on that thread.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=908347&tn=32
Just a little something to laugh about on hump-day Wednesday.
Edit: It's Thursday. My days are running together...yikes.
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
My first encounter with yourself came in response to your very first post. Yours was an open handed and frank request for assistance. As a way of welcoming you I responded as I did.
Now I hate to tell you but I am not perfect and neither are you. That is a given. But in our desire to be more perfect we need to respond when anyone begins saying things, without thinking, that damage us all.
If we say nothing that is acquiescence.
You won't do that and neither will we.
Time to start over, I think.
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MisterE
Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
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Ummm...dude? It's Thursday - hope that helps.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Yea, yea. It's Thursday, I know duh right? I'm caught in the subsistence of "at risk" status(read: pretty much unemployed) at work, and the school days all run together, whoops!
Jstan, I just thought it was funny and ironic. That first thread got a lot of responses and I never thought I'd actually meet a lot of the people that responded to me.
Either way, a very funny look back at your initial response and our initial meeting. Perhaps first impressions aren't always right. Or perhaps, we're all not perfect and sometimes we piss some people off.
Happy THURSday!
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jstan
climber
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Mason:
I do appreciate your response.
One last point raised by your response. It will sound like nit-picking but it really isn't. It's very important.
"we piss some people off."
At no time was I pissed off. I did not do any stamping around and swearing. When a person gets mad they lose the ability to do that which is most effective. Judgment suffers.
Anger is the functional equivalent of admitting defeat.
I'll repeat that.
Anger is the functional equivalent of admitting defeat.
Many times in the past I have been hit pretty hard, just as we all get hit.
The problems were all made solvable simply by staying cool.
PS:
This last is something rock climbers have to know.
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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John -
Thanks as well. I am sure you weren't, but I can imagine some others might have been. I'm glad we can start over and maybe get off on the right foot again.
Keeping cool is definitely important and I am glad we were all able to do this.
Cheers
Edris
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Pate -
The post that Jstan was quoting was someone else in that thread. I was the noob, and the quoted person was surprised that so many people responded to me with helpful tips rather than make fun of me. Jstan highlighted the fact that I asked a question courteously and with respect. You should probably go back and re-read to understand the context of the quote and John's response.
I think that will clear up the misunderstanding.
Edris
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| Messages 1 - 102 of total 102 in this topic |
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