Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 3, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
So Ron, just to be clear, you say you heard a person on a FOX radio show who is purported to be a scientist make a bunch of assertions about climate science, and you consider it worthy of your trust?

Do you listen to a lot of FOX NEWS while you work? If you are truly a rugged independent as you claim does that also mean you listen to an equal amount of NPR just to balance it out?

Even if you do, you may be a little alarmed to learn about this:

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/


Now I'm not sure to what extent this was ever "peer reviewed" but it certainly got a lot of attention in the popular media at the time. I know that the extent of FOX's rebuttal was a claim that this particular University's claim to fame was as a party school. When I looked on line for more criticism the only one was The Blaze referencing "A Blogger".

Too bad you can't remember more. This could be a game changer.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 3, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
You seem unusually close lipped this evening Ron. Is everything OK?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:01am PT
hell yeah. Hey, did you see that the House Science Commitee is holding hearings to see about gassing us with sulphur to slow down the global warming that isn't happening anyway but just in case?

Its not some nefarious conspiracy you need to worry about NWO. Its this:




McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:05am PT
Good subject matter New World Order. You can bet this is being looked at seriously. I was at a party where there were a number of environmental researchers a few years ago and was very surprised that some of them thought this was going to be the solution, or at least part of it. It was like, " Oh yeah, that's what we'll be doing." It was too matter of fact for me. It was depressing because the notion seems to be that since we can't control ourselves we will be looking to these reactive solutions. These solutions will take us down the wrong path.

That's pretty scary Bruce!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Reptillian?

Well that would be the Illuminati of course
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:14am PT
I have! Whats he got to say these days?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:25am PT
Yes I am familiar with the David Icke alien reptile theory. Please don't tell me Ptor is all over that stuff. I don't know him that well but I know he's a bright guy, but then bright guys are a dime a dozen. I know one particularly bright guy who speaks quite convincingly about the existence of sasquatches. If he was American he could quite easily get elected to Congress.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:36am PT
Things are not always as they appear.

Then how do you determine what they are?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:47am PT
Yes I'm sure you will discover the truth on your bike ride. Wear a helmet though - you might encounter something that appears to be a car - but how can you be sure? Test it? Good plan.

I always love it when someone encourages you to leave the herd and join the warriors of truth out in their little clubhouse. But..... If they have their own clubhouse then maybe they are the herd?

I think I need a sixth sense to figure this out, or maybe some acid and a good David Icke novel.
abrams

Sport climber
Jun 4, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Illinois high sulfur coal, that is unsaleable in the US, is regularly burned in Chinese power plants these days.

They pay us more than a $100 per metric ton!




http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/511016/a-cheap-and-easy-plan-to-stop-global-warming/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2011297/Coal-burning-China-cools-planet.html
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 4, 2013 - 01:28am PT
Buy More Sh#t Cheaper.

Simple thing to help soak up carbon;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZ6hCy_Pok
abrams

Sport climber
Jun 4, 2013 - 01:57am PT
Enviro's like to dream of the day when wind and solar replace burning carbon
for electricity. But few will accept their lights going out at sunset or when the wind stops blowing.

The question here is why the owners of those clean energy systems
are not required to build in equivalent 'spinning reserve' capacity?

The fossil fuel energy guys have to do it.




http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Calculating-cost-solar-wind-dont-3676376.S.187931243
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 4, 2013 - 10:57am PT
Ron - I think I may have found your paper, or at least one you will be predisposed to believe:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/04/cfc-climate-change-study-canada_n_3382906.html


Note that this news article highlights how a single as yet not peer reviewed study and hypothesis is given premature credence and prominence in the popular media, even the supposedly liberal media. This is directed at the general public, not the policy makers. It is well established that all but the most delusional policy makers world wide are in agreeance with AGW theory, generally in parallel with the consensus in the scientific community. However, they also take their cues from the general public, who are massively out of sync with the professional consensus. As much as we like to cynically think that we have no influence on public policy, this is not absolutely true, which is why so much is invested in propaganda by both government and big business.

The main reason that to date no significant effort has been made by American and Canadian societies to mitigate AGW is because the general public understands and trusts the process of science about as much as Rick Sumner, El Chuff, Ron Anderson and Sarah Palin. For 20 years Rick , Chuff, Ron, Sarah, Donald trump and a remarkable volume of other ignorant stooges has been directing government policy of climate change. This is the real legacy of however this plays out.

We can blame Paul Broun, James Inhoffe and Stephen Harper all we want but the truth is, we voted for them and we watch FOX news. We watch it because they tell us our intuitions are good and there is no need to discern the difference with prejudice. We like this. It feels good and it means we don't have to validate our intuitions or personal motivations. They say believe what you feel and we will support you. And if you also feel that you have no influence so you are free to jabber whatever you want, then so much the better.

But anyway, getting back to the basics (If you actually care that is Ron) pay attention to this, especially the last line:



John Stone, a lead author at the IPCC, said he was “somewhat surprised” by the suggestions in Lu’s abstract. He said it is important not to overemphasize the findings of one report contradicting many that have found the impact of CFCs to be slight compared with that of carbon dioxide.

He also took issue with Lu’s conclusion that Earth has been cooling since 2002, saying Lu did not adjust for natural occurrences as other scientists have.

Despite a relatively stable decade of global temperatures, “the overall long-term trend is going up,” he said.

Still, he concedes that the report, as any in the scientific community, is worthy of further study.

“It’s open to challenge, and that’s good, because that’s the only way science will advance. So this, presumably, will be looked at very carefully, and other scientists will comment, and through that process we’ll eventually figure out just what the truth is.”
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 5, 2013 - 02:15am PT
Here is some interesting reading for you guys. A physicist named Weather Phil on this thread. He goes long on predictions for a distinct cooling period we are entering and provides his own theories backed up with peer reviewed papers. Quite a bit to take in, but very interesting.

http://westernusawx.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=33725
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 5, 2013 - 03:00am PT
here is some interesting reading for you Rick. There is very little to take in but very interesting.

Here is Weather Phil's Cirriculum vitae:


WeatherPhil
Member Since 15 Jan 2010


Just realized my drunk comments from a few yrs ago. We're about to have our baby so kind if good timing on the ban


About Me:
rigid with a soft center


Community Stats


Active Posts:
8,078

Profile Views:
13,580

Member Title:
be controversial

Age:
30 years old

Interests:
Physics, Solar Science, Climatology, Meteorology, String Theory, Sports, Excersize, Learning, Sleeping, Working, Eating, Photography, Love, Relaxation, Astronomy, Bud Lite, Danger...



Favorite Weather:
extreme



Clearly this persons opinions merit our rapt attention. I'm particularly impressed by his stated expertise (Interests/ expertise - same thing) in learning and bud lite. According to you he is a physicist but he neglected to mention it here, no doubt out of a heightened sense of humility.

I like his graphs. They look very impressive. I bet he went to school.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 5, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Here is a guy who seems to be capable of sticking to his field of expertise when casting judgement on AGW theory. It wasn't always so as he like many celebrity meteorologists was at one time prone to level one disease, which is the capacity to take a rudimentary and woefully limited ability of knowledge and skill and assume expertise in a field for which they are unqualified.

You have to wonder if these guys ( meteorologists) are prone to fall for this heuristic trap, would it be possible for someone like Rick Sumner?

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/06/one-meteorologistss-come-jesus-moment-climate-change


The interesting thing is, when he sticks to his field of expertise (weather) he raises some interesting questions with observations he is capable of making. What exactly are the mechanics of "increasing severity" of weather events in AGW theory? I wondered if there was something to do with an increased instability vertically through the atmosphere. This guy seems to think it is a greater instability horizontally as well as more stationary patterns.


More specifically, Ostro began noticing a pattern of what's called increasing atmospheric thickness. In other words, the vertical distance between the Earth's surface and various higher levels of the atmosphere (identified by their atmospheric pressure) was growing. To explain this, Ostro uses the helpful analogy of baking a loaf of bread. "You put dough in the oven, it rises," he says. "Same thing in the atmosphere." With increasing heat, the atmospheric ridges of high pressure (regions in which air is falling, rather than rising) were higher, taller, on average. "The frequency of these really strong ridges of high pressure aloft, these anomalous high pressures aloft are increasing," Ostro explains—with profound consequences.

Can anyone else suggest whats going on with the mechanisms ofincreasing severity?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 5, 2013 - 11:16am PT
We used to have glaciers and dinosaurs in tropical jungles. Anything short of those two extremes is just natural variability... which can easily be explained by ANYTHING except anthropogenic CO2. Why you ask? Well, because nobody knows anything with absolute certainty... so Joe the plumbers guess is as good as any scientist's.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 5, 2013 - 11:18am PT
^^^^^^Stupid post.

Would you want joe the plumber doing brain surgery, too? After all, his opinion is just as good as anyone else's.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 5, 2013 - 11:35am PT
so Joe the plumbers guess is as good as any scientist's.


Absolutely, and by this standard one can see why 46% of the voting public thought Sarah Palin was a good choice.
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 5, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Everything can be explained when you look at the FACT that the world is less than 10,000 years old...Humans and Dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time (evolution is junk science). The world was created in just 6 days with one day to rest and reflect on the beauty of the creation.

Everything went to hell in a bucket when Eve (evil) ate an apple given to her by a snake--that's when we realized we were naked and not like the dumb animals...shortly after we invented gun powder and killed off the dinosaurs, wolves, bears, and anything else that we could use to decorate our houses (that's right there was a BIG market for TAXIDERMY--imagine the skill needed to mount a T-Rex head in a life like manner).

Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Earthquakes have been increasing in power and number due to our lack of human sacrifice...we have made the one true god angry (he-- is a man not a female--is mad as hell and won't take it anymore) so we have to suffer.

This is obvious to the astute observer...Christian Science has proven this beyond all doubt!!!
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