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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jun 27, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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Smartest thing might be to just read the blog below the story. There are many varied opinions there. One guy makes the point that the Sierra Club et al does not necessarily block All projects as the story might imply.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 27, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
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Where does rick get his numbers for natural gas supply? See below, do the math, the consumption today is approx. 65 billion cubic feet per day. The reserve estimates are going to take another huge jump in the near future, or so i've been assured.Why all the complexity for an unworkable CO2 tax scheme? Do you want the trend to continue with conspicuos consumption or do you want conservation of all resources, be they FF or renewables? A simple progressive consumption tax would suffice and have the advantages of ease of administering, kind to the lower economic rungs, encourages conservation over consumption. Of course, being a conservative i would want the income tax reduced or abolished to offset.It's not that i believe in your CO2 catastrophe ideas, it's just that i'm entertaining your guys ideas to see if you are at all rational.
http://breakingenergy.com/2013/04/09/natural-gas-reserves-estimates-soar-potential-gas
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 27, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
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Taxing dumping plant food, whose atmospheric content follows temps rather than precedes, is not what i want to do. It is what you guys want to do. By narrowing in on a single sector you will encourage cheating and create a massive black market. Aside from that it would take billions of man hours to calculate, verify, and collect such a tax. Unless you are looking for employment for the legions of climate scientists, once this farce is refuted for good, it just seems grossly wasteful. A straight consumption tax would have all the advantage for CO2 reduction you want, be much easier to administer, and would encourage a new psychology of conservation in all aspects of life-hell it might even encourage more people to provide for their own retirement through savings, if you can imagine that.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 28, 2013 - 01:00am PT
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Yes of course, just like health care the whole 2000 page bill is ready on the shelf for immediate use. There is a small chance that dr. F and hedges opposition free universe will emerge from the frontier of imagination. In the mean time there is zero chance that carbon tax bill will make into law. So let's be realistic,if you want a tax to change habit think about the base psychology that encourages over consumption and waste to begin with.Taxing a single bad habit will just encourage another, one you guys haven't even imagined yet, but might well be worse than fossil fuel addiction.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jun 28, 2013 - 01:33am PT
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Nothing is without its costs doc.
Which means, obviously, we should keep using one of the worst until the IDEAL, completely clean energy source is discovered... not through trial and error though, it is just TOO risky with all those birds and socialism and stuff... it will have to come through divine intervention, or the next best thing, laissez-faire capitalism.
So let's be realistic,if you want a tax to change habit think about the base psychology that encourages over consumption and waste to begin with.Taxing a single bad habit will just encourage another, one you guys haven't even imagined yet, but might well be worse than fossil fuel addiction.
Wow, is that dude for real?
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 05:21am PT
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Dingus, every country the turbines have sprung up are seeing the same results.
No, you are wrong.
Did you even read the article with a lot of links that I posted?
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:30am PT
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What does this mean?
The United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) lowers the Boom on Al Gore’s Big Lie that the humble, beneficial gas – CO2 – causes global warming. NASA states absolutely that Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is a Global Coolant and massively cools the Earth.
So, there we have it. In addition, the Earth has not gotten any warmer for 17 years. NASA has finally pulled the plug on Gore’s Big Lie and ended the gigantic, world wide charade on CO2.
This “discovery” about CO2 is nothing new, it’s well known by scientists not employed by the Gore-istas. The Gore-istas probably know it, too; but the money was just too good to pass up. Besides, you don’t have to do anything except sit around, make up wild stories and tell lies.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:32am PT
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It's a load of BS.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:42am PT
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So you're saying NASA is lying?
NASA says Al Gore is lying?
Who the fuk is telling the truth?
The Chief?
Hedge?
Rick?
No-thing?
No one knows?
......... :-)
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:43am PT
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NASA does not state CO2 is a net cooler.
And to repeat the critical word:
net
net
net
net
net
net
net
net
net
net
CO2 both reflects some sun energy and traps some energy in the atmosphere.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:44am PT
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NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools Atmosphere
Huh?
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:45am PT
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The finely crafted lie was that CO2 was a heat trapping “Greenhouse Gas” and was causing “Global Warming;” when CO2 is actually a Global Coolant.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:45am PT
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It means you are very gullible.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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You're an idiot Mono
I didn't claim any alliance to any of it nor any of your bullsh!t either.
You're projecting your own garbage onto the outside world.
I merely asked from the so called experts here about this.
I was neutral.
See how stupid you are ......
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:50am PT
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Go and read what NASA say if you are really interested.
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:58am PT
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I know at least. That NASA result have already been discussed in this thread.
The result have no implications on CO2:s behavior in the troposhere.
It is just sad how a valid result is completely missinterpreted in the blogosphere and how people like you, ron and rick always believes what you read in the blogs but never reads or understands the real research.
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 11:15am PT
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The chief, how who would you know that when you haven't read a single scientific article or book in your life?
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 11:18am PT
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But you are atleast consistent in that you of course did not made a comment about what I wrote even though you quoted it.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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NASA closed the curtain on the mythology of fictitious global warming; which is now changed to “Global Cooling.
It was pretty hot yesterday here.
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