Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Ron you have identified a problem with wind power ie killing the birds...contrast that with the # of birds killed by the fossil fuel industry each year--which is more???

Fossil Fuel spills kill almost everything that is trapped in them and create a Superfund Site disaster area to boot.

Turbines killing birds may have a solution...what that solution is I don't know. Maybe it is a sound/smell that birds hear or smell that they don't like...

Point is we can look for a solution to the turbine problem whether it be longevity of the turbine or the killing of birds...

PLEASE don't say investors have to make a profit for a solution to be viable...Like I said before the poor and the wealthy share the world...they may have the guns but we have the numbers (jim morrison)...
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
Here is a solution, from McHale's link:

mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Thanks Mchale's Navy I didn't see your link to the "Bird safe wind turbine" still haven't read the link yet (loading slow on the computer)...

Point is all of the non-carbon emitting solutions to energy production have an advantage of being better for the environment!!!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Kind of sad that someone like Ron, who clearly knows about birds and could potentially offer insight into reducing the number of birds killed by turbines, is too busy being pissed off at science he doesn't understand to make a useful contribution to the world.

People who only see problems and never offer solutions are despicable.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
Necessity is the Mother of invention! I wonder if anyone has thought about some kind of light streamer rod that can be hung from turbine tips that can drag behind the tip, reaching almost to the next tip that create the illusion of enclose, so birds can see the path of the tips. They would just hang straight down when there is no rotation.

Wing tip lights could leave enough of a trail on the retina.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
CO2 is popular because it is invisible.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Come on Ron! WTF... talk about eye sores!



And those are just 2 I happened to grow up with.

I'm sure NO birds were EVER harmed there.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Those ain't the cities. Nice ass umption though.

Here's another one I grew up with... not in a city.


BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
WHY??? I think the answer lies in WHO is in control of the commodity----BIG OIL!!!!

I've heard this tripe too many times.

Who controls the price of oil? The nationalized, state run exporting nations are sitting on most of the reserves. They try to control price as a cartel, with most of them being OPEC members. The big question now is do the Saudi's still have excess production capacity, meaning do they have extra oil to dump onto the market to force prices down?

You can add up every major oil company in the world, and their reserve base isn't a fly on the ass of Saudi Arabia.

A person can be ignorant, but if you want to understand oil markets, you need to spend a couple of weeks thumbing through the statistics and papers on the Energy Information Administration website. It is like the CIA of energy facts and numbers.

Most of you probably don't know this, but the United States was the number one producer of oil for decades. Our production peaked in the seventies, but the Saudi's flooded the market during the mid to late eighties and drove price down to nothing. That led to total bloodshed in the oil industry. Whole companies went down, and there were so many laid off employees that a job was impossible. So does Saudi Arabia still have that ability? At these prices everyone else is producing flat out, and drilling like crazy.

Natural gas prices went into the toilet. The shale gas plays discovered so much gas that they were victims of their own success. Most drilling these days is for liquids.

Back to the U.S. We had the second largest reserves on the planet other than Saudi Arabia, 190 billion bbls. Our problem is that we have already produced most of it.

Oil is still cheap. 3 bucks will power a big pickup truck for 15 miles at high speed. One gallon of the stuff is incredibly energy dense.

The way to evade this is to conserve. Changing habits and vehicles will save you money. Although we get a small fraction of our imports from the Middle East, that is where the future reserves are, and so much supply that they control price.

You should check into Goldman Sachs. Some of the investment banks are so big on oil futures that they hire their own tanker fleet. Natural gas is a fully domestic market and follows the supply and demand model quite well.

I don't want to hear any more blame Big Oil crap. Big Oil is dangling onto the winds of the American consumer, who by far is the most wasteful user of oil on the planet.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Big Oil is dangling onto the winds of the American consumer, who by far is the most wasteful user of oil on the planet.

Dangling... with 6 figure average salaries and multimillion dollar bonuses.

You make it sound as if Big Oil is a passive part of the system, rather than actively lobbying AGAINST higher fuel efficiency standards, etc.

Always enjoy your insider scoop on the fossil fuels though.


BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
The Chief posts all of these graphs that he digs up and parses to suit his argument.

At the same time he utterly discounts science over on the Politics, God, vs. Science thread.

Split personality or something.
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Sorry Base but Big Oil, Big Auto etc have colluded us into being able to only use fuel they profit off of...but wich in fact should belong to us all equally...


Why are there no vehicles that can be driven off of ethanol here in the U.S. they are in other countries???

Could it be that here is where the profit lies???

Everyone could have a ethanol producing still in their backyard and burn a fuel much cleaner and more powerful than gasoline...why is this not possible??

YOU are a good person who happens to work in the petroleum business but the majority of the people in the business care about only one thing: PROFIT...you care about more than that.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
Almost 200 square miles of desert, now with derricks every 0.5 miles or less (see all the little white dots? click to enlarge.)


Each one looking like this.... but you don't see it, so it isn't an eye sore. I'm sure no wildlife was harmed in the creation of these platforms.



Yea, wind is "bad"
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
Really? Windmills aren't clean energy?

The bird issue is irrelevant in your case, since you actively hunt and kill birds for fun.

You know, there are college extension programs where you can enroll as an old crusty dude and actually learn things.

http://www.unce.unr.edu/programs/natural/
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Right... so something can't possibly be green if there is any environmental damage at all associated with it? Ignore the FACT that the damage done by fossil fuels is FAR FAR greater than that done by wind energy or other alternative energy source, and focus just on the negative. No point in even TRYING to understand... if it is labeled "green" it must be part of Obama's scheme to take your guns. Just focus on how it is less than ideal, regardless of whether or not it is an improvement over the existing system.

Your life must be wonderful.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Three cheers for the return of Base to denounce the hypocrits catch all blame of big oil for all our ills. Yes it's up to us idiots to use the resource wisely that his industry is working overtime to find, develop, process and distribute. You guys that decry the destruction of the planet can lead the way by selling your vehicles,staying at home in your newly downsized, vertically stacked cubicle apartments, unplugging your extraneous appliances including the computers you use to assault others on the internet, and voluntarily paying a carbon tax along with your income taxes.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
Three cheers for the return of Base to denounce the Chief as a hypocrite.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
What do wages have to do with CO2 emissions?

But sure, I'm game... as long as it is done on an hourly basis and includes grad school as "training"... over the last few years I estimate I made about $5/hr, tops.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
Wages have everything to do with INCOME taxes...
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
Commiserate

Commensurate
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