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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:32am PT
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Well Edward, as you know with decrease in our shielding we'd be far more susceptible to Romulan disrupters, Klingon torpedoes, etc.- don't you watch your StarTrek?
Seriously professor, we'd be more exposed to extrasolar cosmic rays and there still not completely evaluated effect on cloud nucleation. This would be a smaller problem than our normally life giving sun as we'd be highly exposed to the full spectrum of radiance and there not completely understood atmospheric effects, still of greater concern would be solar wind fluxes and mass ejections. These effects we have not witnessed in the modern age. Interestingly enough were overdue for a field reversal and the field is in a considerably weakened state as well as rather mobile at the moment.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:43am PT
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Well with the hypothesized increase in cloud nucleation there would be a tendency to moderation of temps but that would do us little good if the sun blew away a considerable part of the upper atmospheric layers now would it? Increased destruction of the ozone layer would also be in the cards.Certainly there would be a multiple disruptions to tropheric ciculations and i would imagine both hot and cold locations in the early stages. Thats my attempt to answer. Now you the physicist-give us the full range and values of the hypothetical effects.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:48am PT
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Owens River extention hell! They'd likely divert the whole Frasier salmon runs and all buddy. Now you are talking sense canuck!
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:08am PT
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Rick, why all the talk about atmospheric catastrophe we can't do much about? You are sounding apocalyptic. You sound like a raving religious lunatic.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:13am PT
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I read the paper, or a very similar one using sediment core and tree ring data from siberia a while back. The abstract mentioned sudden warming events accompanied by increased CO2, presumably lagging. Now how can you categorically state the field weakening leading up to a reversal cannot be a major contributing factor, herr professor? That's not what i took away from the paper or similar one.
McHale, i pride myself on rationality. I'm not a religious man nor do subscribe to apocalyptic visions/cults. I do believe their is much more to this earth, this solar system, this universe than humankind will ever be able to understand let alone control.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:25am PT
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Ed your link leads to a subscription application. The graph you posted is to small to resolve any detail. Let me ask you this; does it show a transient magnetic reversal in the last 40-60 thousand years? There is some evidence of such an event.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 26, 2013 - 02:08am PT
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^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 02:33am PT
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Here's the future. The wealthy people live on an orbiting space station.
http://movies.yahoo.com/video/elysium-trailer-4-224018929.html
I do believe their is much more to this earth, this solar system, this universe than humankind will ever be able to understand let alone control.
Who says we're in control?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 26, 2013 - 08:40am PT
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The Chief: As you know Gary, your water there in SOCAL comes from my neck of the woods as well as the CO River.
Actually, Huntington Beach gets most of our water from wells and the rest from the Colorado, but your point is well made.
In the west we've built a house of cards when it comes to water supply.
BTW, Rick, you should be glad LA bought, not stole, the Owens Valley water. That action left you with an undeveloped paradise.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Jun 26, 2013 - 11:24am PT
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I used to live in Huntington--Gary great place to live!!
As far as where our water came from---I watched a science program that says it came from comets and asteroids with ice on them impacting the earth...
Overpopulation is a real problem...unfortunately the Catholic religeon doesn't believe in contraception (not sure about other religeons) but even if the Catholic Church allowed contraception most people in a predominately Catholic country like the Philippines can't afford to use contraception (and families have 8-12 children consistently).
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 11:48am PT
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Thanks for the enlarged readable copy Ed. Looks like there is a pronounced reaction around the Kaena/Gauss/Mammoth events to me. The graph is for the period of 3.6 to 2.2 m is it not? The resolution is is multi millenial and smooths over any events happening on a centennial or decadal time frame. There was a transient event in the neighborhood of 40-60 k ago that flipped and flipped back in less than 800 years that would be interesting to look at in the proxy record.
Overpopulation guys-Well how about going full speed ahead on technology to expand outwards and get a firm handle on the problems of today rather than spending unlimited time, energy, and treasure on studies to convince ourselves it's hopeless unless we give up all rights and prosperity to a new aristocrat class?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
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Wet wood chips are used for H2S reduction for odor control, but they are merely a substrate to grow bugs on that eat the H2S
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Jun 26, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
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One "solution" to the problem of capturing CO2 is here:
http://carbonengineering.com/
No planes or contrails or weird, flakey whatever needed or involved. Just simple, down-to-earth technology.
David's a cool guy, and was once even a pretty good climber, from his days living here in Boulder, so this is on topic on more ways than one.
He would be the first to admit that though he has a potential "solution" it's up to the policy makers to decide when and IF they want to try sequestering.
He would argue that far better would be for us to cut down on our CO2 emissions.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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Base is providing for our essential energy needs as a good scientist in his field should. When the backasswards society that is America circa 2013 wakes up from their lala utopian world of bucolic spinning windmills and the fantasy of solar power generation it will discover the abundant cheap energy supplies right under the feet of the industrial heartland where it is most needed. He may be conflicted, but he is performing an invaluable public service in my book.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 26, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
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You think a guy who maintains weapons of mass destruction, actually gives a flying f*#k about mankind?
I'm quite sure that none of us know specifically what Ed does for a living. Additionally what you've written is illogical gibberish but let's play along for a moment...
If your supposition (he maintains weapons) is true and if that implies that he doesn't care about mankind (which doesn't logically follow) THEN YOU SHOULD REALLY WORRY IF HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 26, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
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I know a little bit about what Ed does for a living. He doesn't play that card here but it would turn a stack of these stereotypes upside down.
What continues to amaze me on this thread is how many posters feel confident in making loud, aggressive declarations based on complete ignorance. I don't know how they get away with that in daily life, maybe the people around them won't call it. I couldn't get away with it for ten minutes even if I wanted to.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jun 26, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
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The history of stands has been examined through cross sections of trees and core samplings.. They survived many fires over their life spans. It has been estimated that the great basin used to have fires approx every ten years that would burn through stands, cleaning the fuel loads and treating the soils.
What about past stand replacing, high intensity fires... how are those recorded?
The fire recurrence interval is typically on the order of 10's of years. I think in Tahoe it is about 50 years (using the confounding terminology in which a "50 year recurrence interval" technically means there is a 1 in 50 chance of a fire of any intensity occurring each year). The only "signal" available with any decent temporal resolution (as far as I know) is from tree rings. Problem is, NO tree ring information is available for stand replacing, high intensity fires... and certainly no information on fuel loads.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jun 26, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
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How can you predict with any accuracy what natural forces shall effect CO2 and other gasses in the future.
We KNOW humans have increased atmospheric CO2 by 40%.
We KNOW carbon sinks (oceans, biosphere) are NOT taking up enough CO2 to keep up with human emissions.
We KNOW that CO2 is a strong greenhouse gas, the effects of which can be demonstrated by anyone with an elementary school education.
We KNOW temperature has been increasing with increasing CO2, as expected.
We DON'T KNOW of any other mechanism that would cause the observed warming.
Why is accurately predicting the future a requirement? Do we have to accurately predict the number of cases and types of cancer before we regulate carcinogens?
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Jun 26, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
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Dr Cris(co?) - you are full of falsities. What torture technique did they use to brainwash you? Did it hurt much?
Don't thank me for helping you but hurry up and go get reeducated. It is the first step to being saved from these ugly conspiracy theories about GW that are seem to be haunting so many.
Study hard and good luck purging.
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