Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2013 - 11:08am PT
The Chief, bring back your avatar of the boy telling the world to F' off.

It is such a perfect image of how I view you.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Dec 21, 2013 - 11:10am PT
HI CHIEF
new world order2

climber
Dec 21, 2013 - 11:16am PT
"Sunshade" to fight climate change costed at $5 bln a year
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/30/climate-sunshade-idINDEE87T0K420120830

Transporting a million tonnes of particles to at least 18 km (11 miles) above the Earth every year to form a sunshade is "both feasible and affordable", U.S. scientists concluded in the journal Environmental Research Letters.

Al Blood and Gore makes mention of spraying chemicals in the atmosphere here, and although he is against it,
simply introducing the subject, is a hint that it may be an option in the future. Think not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrrWXurroWw



You guys over 50....do you recall ever seeing the sky like this, when you were a child?
I sure don't. I remember seeing contrails from jets disappearing within minutes.
You can bet, that within an hour of this photo being taken, the sky appeared a milky white haze. Have a look up.
What a lovely day to chemtrail/geo-engineer the atmosphere.
What a lovely day to chemtrail/geo-engineer the atmosphere.
Credit: new world order2


rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 21, 2013 - 11:50am PT
For once i must diverge from the tenets of Chuffian Darwinism to an extent and agree with Mimi to that same extent. If CO2 induced warming was ever the world shattering problem it was hysterically made out to be we would have seen some engineering to remove what we had placed as well as moving to more use of proven non CO2 producing technologies like new generation nuclear and hydro. The money wasted in studies trying to whip up hysterics would have been directed towards identifying and engineering new technologies like the storage problem that keeps solar and wind from being viable replacements. This was never about climate change, it was about control of an unruly populace made up messy "individuals", for the purpose of growing big government/big business which knows much better than us "individuals" how to spend the fruits of our labor. This populace control technique through manufactured fear is a failing policy of many western nations. The U.N.'s scheme of one world big government was always doomed to failure, you will never see even a minority of nations give up sovereignty. Those in power in the multitude of individual nations have their own visions and agendas driven by their own ego's. Look around, other than some idiotically governed western nations, the rest of the world is cooperating with the U.N. IPCC only to the extent of the financial gain that can be had from the stupidity of the western leaders driving their nations into the dirt. How many developing nations are demanding reparations? China and Russia are paying lip service to this stupidity while laughing with their hands held out for cash for their carbon credits.
Besides this, their is the problem of nature. The narrative is losing out to the reality of a cycle of natural cooling of the planet. No matter how much the media hypes the latest little storm, or the products of fudged data and tortured statistics, or the certainty of the majority of a minority of scientists playing with the latest super duper climate models, it is a big fat failure. People have eyes and ears and for the most part eventually wake up to exercise brains functioning well enough to separate the b.s. from facts. The climate change agenda, just like other ruinous agendas throughout history, will never be accomplished short of at the point of a gun.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
Nice The Chief. I see you fit very well into the boyhood age group.
Mimi

climber
Dec 21, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
EPA is formally pushing sequestration as the future solution besides forcing industry and the power plants to produce less, and therefore, burn less fossil fuels. The underground injection wells previously used for hazardous waste disposal will now be used for CO2. We must all stop buying things and must put on more layers in the winter and sweat more in the summer.


EPA Rule Provides a Clear Pathway for Using Carbon Capture and Sequestration Technologies
Release Date: 12/19/2013

WASHINGTON - Today, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a final rule that helps create a consistent national framework to ensure the safe and effective deployment of carbon capture and sequestration (CCS) technologies.

“Carbon capture and sequestration technology can help us reduce carbon pollution and move us toward a cleaner, more stable environment,” said Mathy Stanislaus, EPA assistant administrator for Solid Waste and Emergency Response. “Today’s rule provides regulatory clarity to help facilitate the implementation of this technology in a safe and responsible way.”

CCS technologies allow carbon dioxide to be captured at stationary sources - like coal-fired power plants and large industrial operations - and injected underground for long-term storage in a process called geologic sequestration.

The new rule clarifies that carbon dioxide streams captured from emission sources, injected underground via UIC Class VI wells approved for the purpose of geologic sequestration under the Safe Drinking Water Act, and meeting certain other conditions (e.g., compliance with applicable transportation regulations), will be excluded from EPA’s hazardous waste regulations. Further, EPA clarifies that carbon dioxide injected underground via UIC Class II wells for enhanced oil recovery (EOR) is not expected to be a waste management activity.

EPA concluded that the careful management of carbon dioxide streams under the specified conditions does not present a substantial risk to human health or the environment. EPA’s determination will help provide a clear pathway for the deployment of CCS technologies in a safe and environmentally protective manner while also ensuring protection of underground sources of drinking water.

Today’s rule is complementary to previous EPA rulemakings, including Safe Drinking Water Act regulations that ensure the Class VI injection wells are appropriately sited, constructed, tested, monitored, and closed.

EPA is also releasing draft guidance for public comment that provides information regarding transitioning Class II wells used to inject carbon dioxide for oil and gas development to Class VI wells used for carbon capture and sequestration. The comment period for the draft guidance is 75 days.

Information on the final rule – http://www.epa.gov/wastes/nonhaz/industrial/geo-sequester/

Information on the Geologic Sequestration of Carbon Dioxide: http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/wells_sequestration.cfm
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 21, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
CO2 is used for tertiary recovery in oil fields. It is hard to come by, meaning that you need to be close to one of the delivery lines. There are some CO2 gas fields in New Mexico that is pipelined into the Permian Basin of west Texas as well as to the Golden Trend in southern Oklahoma. There was recently a spur line being built to flood one of the oldest Oklahoma oil fields in NE Oklahoma.

Oil companies pay 5 to 10 bucks per mcf for CO2, so it is hard to get and expensive. Point being, it is in high demand for CO2 flooding of some of the giant oil fields. CO2 is miscible with oil at reasonably low pressures.

Once you put it down there, you recycle and re-inject it over and over again. Then when you are done, it safely stays there.

Yes, it sounds odd, but there is a market for the stuff. Capturing it will be the main expense. Even if you aren't doing a flood, there are zillions of depleted oil fields where you could safely store it until the end of time.

CO2 floods are expensive operations. Under pressure and temperature, it creates carbonic acid and is highly corrosive on downhole casing and also on pumps and rods. You have to use expensive alloys to keep the casing from turning to swiss cheese.

Sequestering is simple and old technology.
Mimi

climber
Dec 21, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
The Verm told me about this huge CO2 pocket in Texas somewhere. I'll have to ask him about it again. A giant underground deposit.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 21, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
You have all the answers .
Mimi

climber
Dec 21, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Chief, your blatant ignorance belies your pigheaded arrogance.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 21, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
You scientist are truly comical.

sums it quite succinctly.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 21, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
What are the defining characteristics of scientists?

They're smart & they enjoy their work. And they increase our knowledge.

I figure anybody that badmouths scientists is a dumbshit with a crappy job.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 21, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Not that there is any current climate problems as a result of Anthro CO2, but perhaps with a bit of bio-genetic engineering the depleted fields can be filled with the mythical molecule and new strains of bugs to consume it in situ to create renewable fields of petro products. I know, pie in the sky, but no more far fetched than the sky is falling scenarios out of alarmists.

EDIT: Getting a bit nasty now, aren't you Wilbeer? Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 21, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
The ONLY place you read that the sky is falling is on that Heartland Institute website,Rick.

"I work on motorcycles and teach people how to climb"

You must be spectacular at both seeing how you are on this thread 10 to 20 times daily.

Edit:
At least you seem optimistic about that pie in the sky,Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:14am PT
The diesel is not in her yet old retired man.

Snowblower?Heck I have only had to shovel 6 times in the 12 years since I built my house.Broom is more like it.

Thats right,shovel,6 times,12 years.

Keep trying?

Trying what?To piss off some polock.

You seem to have your anger under control,not.

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Mark my words... the SIERRA will have 20-40% above avg AVG snowfall this season.

The Chief, October 5, 2013.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:33am PT
He will deny that.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:37am PT
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/sweq.action

LOL, we are at 26% normal for this date.

Last year we were at 95% for this date and still had a poor snow year.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Thing is ,it is not really funny.

Wish we could lend you some,4 inches of rain today.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 22, 2013 - 01:43am PT
Thanks Rick. obviously your'e on board with The zeroth law of thermodynamics may be stated in the following form:
If two systems are both in thermal equilibrium with a third then they are in thermal equilibrium with each other.[1]
The law is intended to allow the existence of an empirical parameter, the temperature, as a property of a system such that systems in thermal equilibrium with each other have the same temperature. The law as stated here is compatible with the use of a particular physical body, for example a mass of gas, to match temperatures of other bodies, but does not justify regarding temperature as a quantity that can be measured on a scale of real numbers.
Though this version of the law is one of the more commonly stated, it is only one of a diversity of statements that are labeled as "the zeroth law" by competent writers. Some statements go further so as to supply the important physical fact that temperature is one-dimensional, that one can conceptually arrange bodies in real number sequence from colder to hotter.[9][10][11] Perhaps there exists no unique "best possible statement" of the "zeroth law", because there is in the literature a range of formulations of the principles of thermodynamics, each of which call for their respectively appropriate versions of the law.
Although these concepts of temperature and of thermal equilibrium are fundamental to thermodynamics and were clearly stated in the nineteenth century, the desire to explicitly number the above law was not widely felt until Fowler and Guggenheim did so in the 1930s, long after the first, second, and third law were already widely understood and recognized. Hence it was numbered the zeroth law. The importance of the law as a foundation to the earlier laws is that it allows the definition of temperature in a non-circular way without reference to entropy, its conjugate variable. Such a temperature definition is said to be 'empirical'.[12][13][14][15][16][17]
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