Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:12am PT
^^^^ He doesn't seem that much different than you'all. Other than opinion.

You can't stop a war by keep fighting. Or by quitting (someone else will jus stand up for ya).
Two must stop, and shake hands..
raymond phule

climber
Sep 16, 2013 - 05:53am PT
Interesting, a 1 year "trend" is enough when claiming that AGW is over but a 40 year trend means nothing if it indicates the opposite.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 09:14am PT
RFOOL
Interesting, a 1 year "trend" is enough when claiming that AGW is over ....

Interesting. Where did anyone questioning this MMGW state or post any kind of a "1" trend here then claim "AGW is over"?

Oh, you must be mistaking FRONTOLOBOTME's post about all them supposed "record breaking" weather events that occurred this year (8 months) and attempting to correlate them to MMGW.

Got it.


EDH
how much of a chance?

It doesn't matter a bit ED H. Cus it did not happen as he "projected" "IT MAY" happen, regardless the % or "chance". That is the foundation of so much of this hysteria. "IF", "CHANCE", "COULD". Then you and the rest justify it all with scientific statistical verbiage that in reality, means nothing.

Fact is, it just aint materializing as so many of the MMGW Industrial Researchers are or have been "projecting" it may or can or could or........



Still NO PHOTO of an ICE FREE NORTH POLE/ARCTIC.... LARRY???

HMMMMM.

Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 16, 2013 - 09:45am PT
Look, if there is a programer out there who can produce a program that would redact the majority of Chuffs diatribes I would pay good money for it. Without it (or a heart attack on chuffs part) this thread is pretty much dominated by the village idiot. Its a zero. I'm outa here.
Another vote for GreaseMonkey,
I've used it to block the 3 deniers for at least a year.
If you guys wouldn't answer them, I wouldn't know they were here.

Bruce, you need to persuade Cmac to give a programmer access to supertopo to remove posts (or posters) at the site. I'm sure it would be easy to ban the liars from this thread.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 09:56am PT
You aint got nothing. Not a damn thing.

Hell, you can't even produce any kind of photographic evidence of an ICE FREE NORTH POLE/ARCTIC.

Nada.


Reaching a straws FRONTAL just like the bullshet lies you attempted to correlate with your theories yesterday.

Keep reaching clown.

FRONTAL
Melt Puddles, Distant Open Water Visible at North Pole Camera 2

AH, no where near the NP idiot! That was already completely debunked idiot. Shall I repost the location of that bouy at the time that particular photo was taken???

UPDATE 7/26: I received a reply via email from Roger Anderson, who is one of the webcam scientists at the Universtiy of Washington. I had asked him if the media was using the webcams that were NOT at the North Pole, but rather drifting southward. He replied: "Yes, they are. The approximate position of the webcams today (obtained from PAWS Buoy 819920) is 07/25/1500Z 84.773N 5.415W." This is even further south than I had placed the buoy, because the data I had was one week old. This puts the webcam at approximately 350 miles south of the North Pole, closer to Greenland than Santa Claus! So no worries, folks, the North Pole is not melting.

The full story of that bullshet propaganda here:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/weathermatrix/did-the-media-just-prove-north-pole-is-not-melting/15739869

Keep reaching.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 10:01am PT
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH^^^^^


Frontalobotme is going to cry foul now.


Keep grasping clown.



You got nothing.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 10:08am PT
Sorry FRONTAL. No where near the pole. Some 350 MILES away.
Total FAIL on your part.... AGAIN.


http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/weathermatrix/did-the-media-just-prove-north-pole-is-not-melting/15739869





BTW: Those were MELT PONDS. NOT OPEN WATER fool!

Though the North Pole lake's 15 minutes of fame focused worldwide attention on global warming's effects on Arctic sea ice, the melting is actually part of an annual summer thaw, according to researchers who run the North Pole Environmental Observatory. "The formation of these ponds and their disappearance is part of a natural cycle," said Axel Schweiger, head of the Applied Physics Laboratory's Polar Science Center at the University of Washington, which helps run the observatory.

The lake, about the size of an Olympic swimming pool, started forming in mid-July, LiveScience first reported on July 23. The size and timing of the lake are typical for this time of year and location, the researchers said.



FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL........ TOTAL FAIL!



The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Wrongo.

You lost again. Clown.

FAIL!
dirtbag

climber
Sep 16, 2013 - 10:47am PT
Fm you're wasting your time explaining anything to this complete dipsh#t.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Sep 16, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Summer arctic ice extent, 1870-2012.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 16, 2013 - 11:52am PT
Ed as we CANT predict the future natural variables with ANY consistency, couldnt a one year RECOVERY as weve seen in 2013 BE the start of an up swing? Will we be saying this again next year? Temps arent up. And what IF that happens? Then will it be explained away as an local anomaly?

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Ron,

It is easy to see natural variability in the data, but a clear trend over a much longer period.

Don't place too much emphasis on one year. Use a three year moving average to smooth the data out.

I have to do that all of the time with decline curves in oil and gas wells, which are almost always hyperbolic to some extent. That depends on the pressure and permeability of the reservoir rock. I usually use a 3 month moving average to smooth out well production declines. They all decline until depleted. Oil and gas wells don't last forever...

We CAN predict the future with a high degree of confidence. I do it every day when evaluating production. I can take a well, run it through some software, and tell you what that well is worth, if you are buying or selling it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Agreed Base.. But this years recovery was above the levels of the last three years..I would think that to be significant.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Ron,

You plot it and see how it compares with the next three years. Don't put too much emphasis on one year, unless you understand the processes involved which lead to ice extent.

I get tired of people always blaming a weather event on climate change. There is a difference between climate and weather.

The green side tosses out bad information as well. That is why you do better reading peer reviewed papers. Of course most of us don't have the math background to understand many of them, but the abstracts provide a summary of the paper and its findings.

It's fun. With health issues, PubMed has pretty much every medical journal article on Earth located on one searchable website. I've used that one a bunch. Very helpful.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
What a bunch of miserable lying sacks of shet. You have an opponent(The Chief) that uses your exact same tactics on you, you get your asses kicked repeatedly, then instead of admitting you losing or at least have met your match you now scheme about running to MAC for relief .Weak, weak, weak.

Ed you are wrong about the submarine surfacings at or near the north pole in 1958 and 1959. Your article clearly states that the summer 1958 excursion had nine surfacings and the level of detail in the history link clearly states one of the surfacings was at or near the pole. The other news article goes onto to confirm this in the first paragraph obliquely and then launches into what was considered far more important- ten surfacings in winter one of which was through the thin ice at the pole. The Nautilus' crossing was considered far more impressive for the time as it showed the new sub's capabilities and the Skate's surfacing through the ice was considered more impressive than a surfacing to ice free polar lead because, once again it showed the sub's capabilities. Remember this was long before the CAGW debate and scare and we were cold war propagandizing.

Base, I trust you are recovering nicely from your health issue?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
RICK S
What a bunch of miserable lying sacks of shet. You have an opponent(The Chief) that uses your exact same tactics on you, you get your asses kicked repeatedly, then instead of admitting you losing or at least have met your match you now scheme about running to MAC for relief .Weak, weak, weak.

Well Rick, seems they are all only doing as the "CONSENSUS" has done to many credible Climate scientist that do not agree with their science globally.

SILENCE and DISCREDIT no matter what.

Par for this MMGW agenda actually.


Proving my point all along.


"If you are not with us (The Consensus), we will do all we can to terminate you."



BASE
I get tired of people always blaming a weather event on climate change. There is a difference between climate and weather.

Thank you.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Ed, the IPCC is set to acknowledge a MWP as warm as today, buried in their upcoming report. Scientists connected to the report are also acknowledging that the models are all wrong in that the Antarctic is showing ice increase and cooling temps instead of the warming and ice loss indicated in the models. The climate sensitivity to CO2 is being dialed down and the current pause duly noted. And still their is rancor among the ranks and member nations because the political wing of the IPCC wants to go full steam ahead with the alarmist narrative. Why, since you already noted the above in various ways and various times are you not elaborating on this?

Many meteorologists are calling for a sixth in a row severe winter in the northern hemisphere, especially Europe. Why is this not being acknowledged as the start of a trend? Now the arctic sea ice has definitely bucked the downtrend of the last decade and since none of it is likely to melt in winter conditions it will have to be called thicker multi year ice next year. Barring extremities of arctic conditions we have yet to witness, the increase trend will continue-how could it be otherwise since their is 60% more ice remaining over that present at the end of the 2012 ice melt season. You guys have profound problems with your opinions and the " GCM's" they are built on. Is it rational to shoot the messenger rather than to examine the contents of the message and pursue other avenues of explanation? It seems to me that Ed, Larry, Mutt, Craig, Mentalcase, Bruce are clinging to their bibles and guns.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
If you have ever walked out onto the arctic sea ice, which I have, offshore of ANWR in early summer, you will plainly see that the ice is a jumbled mess. It moves around a lot and when plates collide, it creates mountainous pressure ridges.

The navy has been measuring ice thickness in the arctic for decades. Did they release that data to the scientific community?

The volume of water tied up in Arctic Ice is insignificant compared to Greenland and Antarctica. NASA and the ESA loaded their launch schedules to their teeth with climate oriented Earth satellites.

The big deal with the loss of summer ice in the arctic will be the massive change in albedo. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that. You will go snowblind very quickly when out on that ice in the summer.

When I was going up there starting about 15 years ago, the ice was attached to the shore until almost August. From the village of Kaktovik, the open water lead was typically fairly narrow, which made finding a bowhead whale much easier. Lately the lead has gotten huge, and they have to cover a lot more water to find a whale.

Unlike over at Barrow, they use motor boats in Kaktovik. It is regulated on the number of strikes. Each village has a certain allotment of strikes.

They toss the first harpoon on by hand, and a huge round red float is attached. The next strike comes from some sort of blunderbuss type of gun that fires an exploding charge into the whale's brain or vitals. Then they have to get ropes around the tail and drag her to shore, where all of the kids stand on top of the whale in a line. Bowheads are big whales.

Just ask an eskimo if they believe in global warming. It is affecting the arctic far more than lower latitudes, and they are having all sorts of problems. Even the Alaskan Republicans believe the science.

There are more ice free days, and these villages are often built right on the water's edge, such as Kaktovik. They get more shoreline erosion because of more waves from more time without the ice protecting the shoreline. Unalakleet had to build a giant sea wall, last I heard. I haven't been up there in a while, but it would be interesting.

During the Cretaceous, it was mainly an ice-free Earth. Sea level was very high, and the Rocky Mountain area was under water from what is now the Gulf, all the way to British Columbia.

Chief can dis that all he wants. Just make him explain that massive pile of cretaceous marine sediments. Here is what the N American craton looked like during the Cretaceous. A lot of the sea level drop was tectonic, but sea levels were several hundred feet higher during that period as well.

You can read about the seaway on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Cretaceous_Interior_Seaway

It looked sort of like this:

Credit: BASE104
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 16, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Ed,

That was the point I was trying to make. The ice moves around in a manner very similar to plate tectonics. They collide and make big pressure ridges. Those are too thick to surface through. There are also areas that were spreading rifts, and they will have thin ice.

This is all illustrated quite well in Ice Station Zebra, a classic. Howard Hughes watched it like a thousand times.

You could find a place to surface a sub almost anywhere under the ice cap. That is why we, and the Russians, keep boomers under the ice. We have the entire Atlantic wired for sound.

That data would be great to study if it were de classified.

Did the navy de classify any of their ice thickness data? Like I said, they have been playing around up there since the first nuclear sub.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 16, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
Then why ignore the inconvenient truths. Temps are NOT UP but flat. Temps are down in the Arctic, and a 60% recovery in one year has been seen.
A recovery over the previous three years worth of records, in one year.

There are more record low temps than hot ones over the globe.

The fires thing then gets fabricated into the mix, with ZERO credibility.

Did you know it was nearly a record SLOW fire season in the great basin?

California, while having a few good fires was also actually slow.
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