Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 29, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
good refutation actually of the north pole ice photo, Chief

however, the fact still remains that global warming IS real and it IS quite rapidly causing melting in the Arctic

I think the point of posting the photo was simply to refute Rick's contention, not your's chief,
that denies the reality OF the current warming trend

also, I DO agree with the chief that, to a large degree, finances and human resources could be better targeted to mitigate human suffering NOW rather than a warming trend that we are likely to not be able to DO anything significant about anyway
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 29, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
. 09 of one degree and holding steady for the past 15 yrs Norton,, think on it.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 29, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
Chiloe said the camera was not at the North Pole (two pics, 87N and 85N). Even provided the same map above.

If The Chief wants to debunk people who mistook it for the north pole, have at it.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
Nice dance. Now wipe that chin of yours Mono.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 29, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Check his posting history, if you dare.

Do you need help?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 29, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Days ago, immediately after seeing the photos, it took me all of five minutes to debunk the arctic Pole melt story. I simply googled Arctic ice cam's and noted the location of the ever moving observation buoys. The little meltwater photo was taken from a UW buoy 350 km from the pole. You know guys, its been the coolest summer on record above 80 north after the longest lasting winter in the history of the mid to upper latitudes of the northern hemisphere. The PDO is in it's negative phase and there are indications the AMO is likewise entering negative territory. Alaska (the poster child of global warming) is over a decade into a cooling trend thats seen the average temps decline at 19 out 20 official weather stations 2.4 f. The southern hemisphere is suffering, in wide ranging locales, from cold snaps of historic proportions. Antarctic ice is at historic highs (sea ice especially) and the continent has been in a slight but steady cooling trend for decades. The global temp anomaly for the month of june is minus 0.0129 c. The rocky mountain and plains states are unseasonably cool right now. The formerly supposedly CAGW induced drought states are suffering rainfalls of (albeit t-storms mostly) of epic proportions. Do i need to go on?
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
MONOLIETH:
Do you need help?

Nope.

But you assuredly do as the amount of fludge dripping off your chin will take several towels to clean off.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
As an excuse for you, Chief, Chiloe did say 3 days ago that the pics were not at the north pole, which seems past the limit of your memory.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
AH! More fludge to wipe off.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
MONO, cease licking Larry's ass would ya for gods sake. I know.

CHILOE
Dark purple here represents 100% ice, lighter purple down to about 85%, yellow in the 70s and so forth. The ice is solid almost nowhere.


The reality of all is that this IS NOT an uncommon occurrence this time of the year. As a matter of fact, the Sea Ice at both "POLES" breaks up and drifts out to sea at the lats they are depicted. Very Common.

MAC STATION in Oct has a sea ice thickness of 3-6'. In Jan, well, see for yourself. This too is a common yearly occurrence:
2010



1983(My last of four and half season there)


The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
ED:

Maybe you should read the entire HISTORY of this particular sea lane in your own story:

What is new in the Novatek project is an oil industry business plan that relies explicitly on the Northeast Passage. Though Russian ships have moved goods along the country’s sprawling Arctic coastline for more than a century, and the route was opened to international shipping in 1991, it became apparent only recently that climate change would make the trip profitable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/business/energy-environment/polar-thaw-opens-shortcut-for-russian-natural-gas.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0



Like I said ED, this is nothing NEW! Please cease pulling shet outta your ass and proliferating BS propaganda to further your scam agenda.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
Or, sticking with an Alaska theme, this from BBC within the past hour:

The Alaskan village set to disappear underwater in a decade

Almost no one in America has heard of the Alaskan village of Kivalina. It clings to a narrow spit of sand on the edge of the Bering Sea, far too small to feature on maps of Alaska, never mind the United States.

Which is perhaps just as well, because within a decade Kivalina is likely to be underwater. Gone, forever. Remembered - if at all - as the birthplace of America's first climate change refugees.

Four hundred indigenous Inuit people currently live in Kivalina's collection of single-storey cabins. Their livelihoods depend on hunting and fishing.

The sea has sustained them for countless generations but in the last two decades the dramatic retreat of the Arctic ice has left them desperately vulnerable to coastal erosion. No longer does thick ice protect their shoreline from the destructive power of autumn and winter storms. Kivalina's spit of sand has been dramatically narrowed.




There's more, it's a good balanced story.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23346370
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
ED:

Again, from the story you posted. The last couple of sentences:
The company intends to open the Arctic plant by 2016. It has already asked for bids for two ice-hardened tankers, which should be able to navigate the sea lanes toward China seven months a year and the routes to the west year round.


He said that because of engineering tolerances built into the ship designs, “even if the climate turns toward cooling, and the ice thickens, we will make money.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/business/energy-environment/polar-thaw-opens-shortcut-for-russian-natural-gas.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0



The rest of story. It has to do with modern engineering & technology and not all GCC. So cease the BS!
dirtbag

climber
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








DRFRY:
Downtown LA is over probably over 800 ppm
There are times when you can feel the green house effect, it is observable at the macro level in many areas now.


Of course you can. Living smack dab in the middle of shetcesspool metropolis of SOCAL. And you drive your Tacoma daily along with the other 3.6plus million vehicles that take to all them city freeways, daily. Hypocrite DRFRY.

More BS propaganda proliferation from the King BSUTOPIAman.DRFRY.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
They were surely writing about the billions that can now be made on the Natural Gas Market in their region.

But as you so well do ED, you chicken picked the verbiage that looked good for your agenda.


Allow me to reiterate the key paragraph of your posted story:

What is new in the Novatek project is an oil industry business plan that relies explicitly on the Northeast Passage. Though Russian ships have moved goods along the country’s sprawling Arctic coastline for more than a century, and the route was opened to international shipping in 1991
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/business/energy-environment/polar-thaw-opens-shortcut-for-russian-natural-gas.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
It's no secret that the area of the Barent Sea offshore Norway and Russia has been increasingly ice free for at least a decade Ed. So what? That is not the Arctic any where near its entirety. With the cooling phase we are entering both Russia and Norway (territorial dispute solved and mutual cooperation contracts signed)may well thank the orthodox god's for Russias nuclear ice breaker fleet in coming decades. The production facilities may be located subsurface thereby alleviating problems due to ice flows.A little Polar melt in the immediate past and into an uncertain future is a good thing for this industry that has sustained our civilization for the last 100 plus years. Wind farms, solar farms, and taxing the public into serfdom not.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Hey look CHILOE, it's CC in action:




NOT! This is a daily common occurrence that happens throughout the world in open waters. It is called a tide.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 29, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
The Chief was unable to comprehend:
No longer does thick ice protect their shoreline from the destructive power of autumn and winter storms. Kivalina's spit of sand has been dramatically narrowed.
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