Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 26, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
Hey Chuff... if you don't realize I know it's not a fish and it's a dolphin then you are more of an idiot that any of us could imagine.

Also, if you paid any attention you'd know why the title of the movie is Blackfish.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 26, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
they call him FLIPPER,, FLIPPER,, faster than lightning~~~~EEUH EEEEUH!



I dub Nature,,"Flipper"....;-)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 26, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/10/26/if-all-you-see-932/
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 08:22am PT
Wade Icey,that Letterman clip says IT ALL.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 27, 2013 - 09:45am PT
hey Chief and Ron.. have you guys climbed anything lately? or too busy hardening those ass callouses by sitting on your duffs being neanderthals on the internet?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
Utopian Version.

U.S.A.built Groovy Cycles Brook Trout 29er.

Credit: wilbeer
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
But that's how the denier game works: They seize on a small errors and inconsequential factual inconsistencies in a piece of climate research and use it to discredit the science and reassure people that climate change is no bid deal. In the 2007 Assessment, for instance, the authors and reviewers overlooked a sentence that asserted the Himalayan glaciers would vanish be 2035 -- an obvious misstatement, which deniers seized and used to suggest that the entire assessment was bunk.... It's like finding a misspelling in the Manhattan phone book and then declaring the whole book useless.

The second issue that has come up is the question of a "hiatus," or pause in the surface-temperature warming. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz recently proclaimed that "there has been no recorded warming since 1998." Not exactly, Ted. According to the IPCC, the rate of warming at the planet's surface is lower over the past 15 years, but warming has not stopped. In fact, since the 1950's each successive decade has been hotter than the last, and the 2000s were the hottest decade since modern record-keeping began in 1880.

To former IPCC chair Watson, it is crucial that these criticisms not go unanswered. "The IPCC needs to have an answer for this," he says. "They need to be prepared." But in Santer's view, climate science is rapidly approaching the point where it is immune to these kinds of critiques: "Up until now, the criticism has been that climate science is like a house of cards, and that if you pull out one or two sets of data, it all collapses. That narrative has been refuted. The Fifth Assessment shows that warming has a physical and internal consistency - it's warming in the deep ocean, in the intermediate ocean and in the lower atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic sea ice is retreating. The observational evidence for human-caused warning is overwhelming, compelling and irrefutable."


On the Koch's

With a combined worth estimated in the tens of billion$, the super-conservative industrial magnates with vast holding in the energy industry are major funders of climate-change skepticism. Their latest move: Via the proxy group Americans for Prosperity, they have persuaded more than 400 members of the current Congress to sign a "No Climate Tax" pledge to oppose any use of government dollars to fund climate efforts that does in include offsetting tax cuts.


!~~~!
Now, who do you think those tax cuts help the most?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Our energy use and habits, as well as those of much of the rest of the world, can be observed on this website, which has incredibly rich data.

The Energy Information Administration:

http://www.eia.gov/

If alternatives cost more than oil, the mere power of demand will keep our consumption the highest in the world. I wish that we were altruists, but we aren't. Everything around you has been touched by fossil fuels.

Rail is the most efficient. Air travel is the worst. Americans use far too much oil. We could cut our consumption by a third just by a change in habits. Jimmy Carter accomplished this back in the seventies. By the time Reagan had been in office a few years, the Saudi's were flooding the market to punish OPEC "cheaters" and with the cheap oil, we stopped conserving and rapidly changed our habits right back.

That website explains how energy markets work. I highly recommend it, as well as a book called "The Prize" to anyone with more than a passing interest in how and why we use fossil fuels.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
I witnessed the devastation of the Saudis flooding the market, the 86' crash created conditions in the oil states every bit as bad as the great depression. If these utopians had their way the whole world would be plunged into a depression much worse than in 1930's. Their ineptitude in rolling out socialized medicine, one of the central fixtures of the socialist utopianism agenda, should be enough to convince any thinking person that we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy. Base is right, in the real world energy consumption and the fuel of choice follow costs. If the eco freaks want clean energy perhaps they should refrain from consuming public resources/monies in endless study of unrealistic scenarios of doom and instead concentrate on engineering tomorrows cost competitive clean energy.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
"It is crucial that these criticisms not go unanswered."

Exactly why I am here.K-man


BASE,while one could truly ponder your thoughts,It is true FF"s are everywhere.

How did it become that way?

There was a starting point,just as alt's are facing today.

Alternatives must be introduced to our infrastructure,they are the key to future DEVELOPMENT.

They are not a pie in the sky.

It is proven that all of them are coming down in price,through better design,manufacturing and availability .


Not to deter your points of lessening consumption .Because you are exactly correct. Cheers.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
You know Rick, That Tea Party thing,you really ought to have that looked at.

It is all about you.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
Yep,believe some guy from the UK,with invisible funding.

How many satellites does he have up there?

Do you have any References?

Is any of his work peer reviewed?

Just keep your answer.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
I absolutely agree that alternatives are better. However, if they cost more, nobody will use them.

I've lived in the bubble of oil and gas markets for my adult life. My conclusion is that our insatiable gullet for oil costs way more than just pump price. Why do you think we keep a couple of carrier groups in the Med and Gulf on the other side of the world? It is because those are going to be the last oil fields standing in another twenty or thirty years. We have already found all of the easy to find oil.

I will say this: There are several reasons why fossil fuels, and oil in particular are downright evil.

The quicker we get off of them the better. I was for the carbon tax under Clinton, but not the way he proposed it. He wanted to tax oil at the wellhead, where it is already taxed to death by the states (7.5% gross here). It needs to be taxed right at the pump. People simply will not conserve unless it actually hits their pocketbook.

Just look on a city freeway. People commute (alone) in a car for 40 miles to work every day. If we had made investments in light rail in all of the dense population centers, this would change things.

Some of it is simple: carpooling is easy to value. Some of it isn't. Such as getting fresh grapes in Feb. that were grown in Chile. On top of that you have manufacturing itself, although manufacturing jobs have fled the U.S. in my life.

So many lives go down the drain over oil. It isn't the actual oil most of the time, it is simply the price of it. We don't import much from the middle east, getting most of our oil from the Atlantic Basin, but the middle east is where the price is set because they are the only ones with any remaining excess production capacity. Every well in the U.S. produces flat out, and our finding costs are enourmous. The massive middle eastern fields have been producing for over fifty years and still have a ways to go. They don't have finding costs, only production costs of a few bucks per barrel.

I saw an interview with the Saudi Oil Minister last year that was really interesting. He said that if another energy source tried to displace oil use, they would dump oil onto the market to drive it out. None of the companies have this kind of muscle; to control price. Only the Saudis.

A lot of it is strictly about choices, though. There are three people in my house and we have three damn cars. I travel very little because I cyber commute, but it is still crazy. Even in high standard of living countries such as the Scandinavian countries can't believe that every person has their own car over here. They have one small one per family.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Well Obama is right about one thing,, the CO2 being exhaled from our politicians IS DANGEROUS..Or at least the makers of it..
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
BASE ,I completely agree with you.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy

Too late, rick sumner. Too late by about 100 years.

Oil prices and policy, for better or worse, IS an example of world-wide government cooperation and interference in markets (socialism? I dunno?) in action.

There's no free market in energy/oil policy. Hasn't been since the US government broke up Standard Oil.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Oh...what do we have....a skidmark down the undershorts of humanity? Titanium dingleberries and an overdeveloped sense of self importance?

That is called Hubris. It isn't fun to be around, and I've only seen a few cases this highly developed in my life.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Hubris Indeed!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
You could not fix a lunch ,dude.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 27, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
It's been an unprecedented beautiful sunny October in British Columbia.

Maybe if I drive to Vancouver for lunch tomorrow and burn some tar sands gasoline, next October will be nice too.

I'm pretty sure Harper wants Canada to replace California as the agriculture capital of North America. That's why he wants pipelines, to hasten California's transition to a dust bowl.
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