Climate Change skeptics? [ot]


Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 11021 - 11040 of total 28024 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
Or here.......

Disclosure: I realize that Rick has the ability of restraint.... or possibly he is chickenshit ..... So he won't bite. Ron is semi permanently in hiding, only squeeking when safe. I know Chuff isn't chickenshit - if provoked enough anyway - but he is generally too incoherent to explain anything. Really I am just trolling to see if we can drag the lurker Blue ring into this to really get to nitty gritty.

Agenda 21 anyone?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
oh look - more interesting things about Lord Monckton

Climate sceptic Lord Monckton told he's not member of House of Lords
Clerk of parliaments publishes letter on Lords' site saying peer is not and has 'never been a member of the House of Lords', Monday 18 July 2011 11.56 BST

Lord Monckton has been told to stop claiming he's a member of the House of Lords. Photograph: Torsten Blackwood/AFP/Getty Images
The House of Lords has taken the unprecedented step of publishing a "cease and desist" letter on its website demanding that Lord Christopher Monckton, a prominent climate sceptic and the UK Independence party's head of research, should stop claiming to be a member of the upper house.

The move follows a testy interview given by Monckton to an Australian radio station earlier this month in which he repeated his long-stated belief that he is a member of the House of Lords. When asked by ABC Sydney's Adam Spencer if he was a member, he said: "Yes, but without the right to sit or vote … [The Lords] have not yet repealed by act of parliament the letters patent creating the peerage and until they do I am a member of the house, as my passport records. It says I am the Right Honourable Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. So get used to it."

The letter, sent by David Beamish, clerk of the parliaments, to Monckton last Friday and now published on the Lords' website, states: "You are not and have never been a member of the House of Lords. Your assertion that you are a member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms. No one denies that you are, by virtue of your letters patent, a peer. That is an entirely separate issue to membership of the House. This is borne out by the recent judgement in Baron Mereworth v Ministry of Justice (Crown Office)."

In May, Mr Justice Lewison threw out an action at the Royal Courts of Justice brought by Baron Mereworth, who maintains that it his hereditary entitlement to attend the Lords, despite the House of Lords Act 1999 debarring all but 92 of the 650 hereditary peers, including his late father Lord Oranmore and Browne. Mr Justice Lewison ruled: "In my judgement, the reference [in the House of Lords Act 1999] to a 'member of the House of Lords' is simply a reference to the right to sit and vote in that house … In a nutshell, membership of the House of Lords means the right to sit and vote in that house."

The letter from Beamish to Monckton continues: "I must therefore again ask that you desist from claiming to be a member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication, and also that you desist from claiming to be a member 'without the right to sit or vote'. I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not."

The Guardian understands that the House of Lords has been consulting with its lawyers on this issue since the ABC radio interview aired. It is not yet clear what form of sanction the Lords has available to it should Monckton persist with his claim.

Last year, the then clerk of the parliaments, Michael Pownall, wrote to Monckton stressing that he was not entitled to call himself a member, nor should he use parliament's famous portcullis symbol on his letterheads or lecture slides, as he has done for a number of years.

Monckton wrote back stating that "the House of Lords Act 1999, which purported to exclude hereditary peers from membership of the House of Lords, is defective". He argued that the act removed the right to sit or vote in the upper house, but did not remove membership because peerages are granted by letters patent, which are a personal gift of the monarch. Monckton claimed in the letter that "only a specific law can annul a grant. The 1999 act was a general law."

Buckingham Palace was drawn into the dispute when it was revealed that Pownall had sought advice from the Lord Chamberlain, a key officer in the royal household, on the potential misuse of the portcullis emblem due to it being the property of the Queen. The Buckingham Palace website states that any misuse of the emblem is prohibited by the Trade Marks Act 1994, meaning Monckton could potentially be liable for fines and a six-month prison term if the palace pursues the matter and successfully prosecutes him.

Official logo of the House of Lords (left) and that used by Christopher Monckton (right). Photograph: Torsten Blackwood/AFP/Getty Images
Monckton has since been using a slightly altered portcullis emblem on his lecture slides. The two chains hanging either side of portcullis are now kinked instead of straight. It is not known whether the Lord Chamberlain is content with the change. A spokesperson told the Guardian that the palace was "aware of the issue", but it had a policy of not commenting on private correspondence between it and an individual.

Monckton is currently on a lecture tour of Australia discussing climate change. The tour has been dogged by venue cancellations after he referred to the Australian government's former climate advisor Prof Ross Garnaut as a fascist during a recent lecture in Los Angeles. Footage of the lecture also showed Monckton displaying a swastika next to one of Garnaut's quotes. Monckton later apologised for "having made the point I was trying to make in such a catastrophically stupid and offensive way".

Sport climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Why climate change will only kill Global Warming Believers, would be a better title for this thread.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Yes, more interesting facts about Lord Bunkton.....

from his Wiki page:



Monckton joined the Yorkshire Post in 1974 at the age of 22, where he worked as a reporter and leader-writer. From 1977 to 1978, he worked at Conservative Central Office as a press officer, becoming the editor of the Roman Catholic newspaper The Universe in 1979, then managing editor of The Sunday Telegraph magazine in 1981. He joined the London Evening Standard newspaper as a leader-writer in 1982.[9] After a hiatus in his career as a journalist Monckton became assistant editor of the newly established, and now defunct, tabloid newspaper Today in 1986. He was a consulting editor for the Evening Standard from 1987 to 1992 and was its chief leader-writer from 1990 to 1992.[9]
Since 2002 Monckton has had several newspaper articles published critical of the IPCC and current scientific consensus on climate change,[10][11] in addition to more light hearted pieces related to his bowler hat wearing.[12]

Political career

Monckton inherited a peerage after the passing of the House of Lords Act 1999,[13] which provided that "[n]o-one shall be a member of the House of Lords by virtue of a hereditary peerage." Monckton asserts that the Act is flawed and unconstitutional, and has referred to himself as "a member of the Upper House of the United Kingdom legislature" in a letter to US Senators,[14] and also as "a member of the Upper House but without the right to sit or vote."[15]
The House of Lords authorities have said Monckton is not and never has been a member and that there is no such thing as a non-voting or honorary member of the House.[6][16] In July 2011 the House took the "unprecedented step" of publishing online a cease and desist letter to Monckton from the Clerk of the Parliaments, which concluded, "I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a Member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not."[17][18]

Monckton stood unsuccessfully in four by-elections for vacant seats created by deaths among the 92 hereditary peers remaining in the Lords after the 1999 reforms. He first stood for a Conservative seat in a March 2007 by-election, and was among 31 of 43 candidates who received no votes.[19] He subsequently stood in the crossbench by-elections of May 2008,[20] July 2009,[21] and June 2010,[22] again receiving no votes. He was highly critical of the way the Lords was reformed, describing the procedure in the March 2007 by-election, with 43 candidates and 47 electors, as "a bizarre constitutional abortion."[23]

Political advisor for Thatcher Conservative Party

In 1979, Monckton met Alfred Sherman, who co-founded the pro-Conservative think tank the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS) with Margaret Thatcher and Keith Joseph in 1974. Sherman asked Monckton to take the minutes at the CPS's study group meetings.[24] Monckton subsequently became the secretary for the centre's economic, forward strategy, health and employment study groups.[25] He wrote a paper on the privatisation of council housing by means of a rent-to-mortgages scheme that brought him to the attention of Downing Street.[24] Ferdinand Mount, the head of the Number 10 Policy Unit and a former CPS director, brought Monckton into the Policy Unit in 1982.[25] He was recruited as a domestic specialist with responsibilities for housing and parliamentary affairs,[26][27] working alongside Mount and Peter Shipley[28] on projects such as the phasing out of council housing.[26] He left the unit in 1986 to join the Today newspaper.[25][29]
Monckton has asserted that he served as science adviser to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher during his years with the Number 10 Policy Unit, and that "it was I who—on the prime minister's behalf—kept a weather eye on the official science advisers to the government, from the chief scientific adviser downward."[30] However, John Gummer, who was Environment Minister under Thatcher, has said that Monckton was "a bag carrier in Mrs Thatcher's office. And the idea that he advised her on climate change is laughable."[31] Writing in The Guardian, Bob Ward of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment notes that Thatcher's memoirs, The Downing Street Years, do not mention Monckton and credit George Guise with the role of science advisor.[30]

Spokesperson and candidate for UK Independence Party

Monckton joined the anti-European UK Independence Party (UKIP) in 2009 and became its chief spokesperson on climate change.[32] At the 2010 general election he was nominated as the UKIP candidate for the Scottish constituency of Perth and North Perthshire; although a hereditary peer, he was entitled to stand for election for the House of Commons as he is not a member of the House of Lords. He subsequently withdrew in accordance with UKIP's policy of not opposing other Eurosceptic parliamentary candidates.[16] In June 2010, UKIP announced he had been appointed its deputy leader, to serve alongside David Campbell Bannerman[33] under party leader Lord Pearson of Rannoch, who owns an estate in Scotland adjoining Monckton's.[34] He was succeeded in the role of deputy leader by Paul Nuttall in November 2010.[35]
In 2011 he stood as lead party-list candidate for UKIP in the Scottish Parliament constituency of Mid Scotland and Fife[36] but did not gain election, with the UKIP list coming seventh after scoring 1.1% of the region's vote.[37] Monckton also headed UKIP's policy unit for a while but according to the party's spokesman he had relinquished any formal role by June 2012, moving into a "semi-detached" relationship with UKIP.[34] The Guardian reported in January 2013 that Monckton was now UKIP's president in Scotland.[38]


In 1995, Monckton and his wife opened Monckton's, a shirt shop in King's Road, Chelsea.[39]
In 1999, Monckton created and published the Eternity puzzle, a geometric puzzle that involved tiling a dodecagon with 209 irregularly shaped polygons called polydrafters. A £1 million prize was won after 18 months by two Cambridge mathematicians.[40] By that time, 500,000 puzzles had been sold. Monckton also launched the Eternity II puzzle in 2007, but, after the four-year prize period, no winner came forward to claim the $2 million prize.

As anyone can see, clearly a man of integrity and accomplishment through earned achievement.

Also obviously credible and credentialed in expressing opinion and criticism of climate science.

I'm sure Rick would agree in so many words.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 7, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
The house of lords DeBunkt him!

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 7, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
I remembered your reference to him from early on, after arrival on this thread, Bruce. Luckily, i ran into some of his work several days ago. He certainly has a clear coherent message doesn't he? You seem to be a one man PR department for him. Thanks for highlighting him, perhaps a few will be swayed by his message.

Now if you would do the same with Singer, Lindzen, Gray, Bastardi, Happer, Dyson, Christy, Spencer, Svensmark, Scafetta,Curry, etc, etc, etc, you could win this little argument for us. Keep up the good work!

SF bay area
Aug 7, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Well I don't know about the others, but Lindzen agrees that the CO2 rise is man made and that climate sensitivity (i.e. doubling Co2 in a century) to CO2 is at least 1C.

Curry and Christy also agrees with some of the basics of agw.

You willing to go along with that, Rick?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
He certainly has a clear coherent message doesn't he?

Sure thing, but the same could be said about Adolf Hitler.

Look I realize the look and sound of his jaunty assertiveness makes you swoon but after the honeymoon is over, is there anything in particular that you can illustrate that makes his opinion credible for you?
command error

Trad climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Did you see the Dsc ch show that linked Hitler to Smart Phones?

Without him and the nazi and their drive for rockets during the war which got the Allies very interested, which gave the people with slides rules head aches trying to do obscenely huge calculations, forced computers to be developed and eventually smart phones and global warming predictions models which are always wrong.


Aug 7, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
^^^^^^ Wow...That's deep.^^^^
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 7, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Dr Robert H Goddard invented the liquid fueled rocket in 1926..

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 7, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Goddard screwed up by not putting bombs on top of his rockets.
Smart people can be real dumb sometimes.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 7, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
His presentations, added to the increasing volumes of real climate science being done looking for all real mechanisms and realistic values, along with the shear weight of the testimony against CAGW by many of the world's preeminent scientists, added to the reliably false predictions of the models and the increasingly desperate hysterics of the lead CAGW proponents, leads any reasoning person to the conclusion that the catastrophe's you guys are so fond of advancing are a fraud.Period...ey Bruce?

Aug 7, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
^^^^^ It's not surprising that you admire that illiterate ditz from wasilla.^^^^
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
His presentations,

What about his presentations? Are you a simpleton? Was I not clear enough? I know he provides presentations and opinion and conjecture and a bunch of other stuff but that has nothing what so ever to do with the precise language I used to present the question.

Why are you such an intellectual coward? You know precisely what I am asking and we know you have a decent enough command of the english language to articulate an answer. Why do you not address it with the precision it requires? Why is it necessary for you to be so evasive?

How about this - are you capable of providing yes or no answers?

Here is one that even Sarah Palin wouldn't be nervous about.... well, perhaps thats not true, but certainly you shouldn't be:

Do you or do you not consider Lord Bunkton capable of judging climate science?

yes or no, thats all I ask


Ice climber
the ghost
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
Are there any climate change deniers on this thread that aren't science/math retards?
The Chief

From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Are there any climate change deniers on this thread that aren't science/math retards?

A far better and more realistic question is, are there any AGW zealots on this thread that aren't straight up across the board without any doubt, retards.


Got it.

Thanks for that confirmation MALMUTS
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
A person has to be mentally-challenged to post here. Count me in!

I found this today;

Bacon fries on pavement as heat wave grips China
SHANGHAI (AP) — It's been so hot in China that people are grilling shrimp on manhole covers, eggs are hatching without incubators and a highway billboard has mysteriously caught fire by itself.

Hey mate, throw another shrimp on the Barbie! (I added this)

Aug 7, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
Yes malamute, they're all like that. Even worse, they're too arrogant to realize they know nothing.

This is for you Chief Loud Mouth. Don't forget to be a good Yappy dog and lap up your mess.

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
That's the spirit. I miss those doggies! It's really a better way to communicate.
Messages 11021 - 11040 of total 28024 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews