Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 5, 2015 - 08:56am PT
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Feb 5, 2015 - 09:15am PT
Such "Negativity" in that statement.. oh the HYPOCRISY Kman!!!


Coming from the king of it.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 5, 2015 - 09:28am PT
Wade - We still have experts.

In 2007, a team of climate scientists from the UK Met Office led by Doug Smith wrote a paper “Improved Surface Temperature Prediction for the Coming Decade from a Global Climate Model”, published in the journal Science. Although published in 2007, the paper made predictions for the decade 2004-2014. (Presumably the work was started around 2004 and it took some time for the paper to be published). The paper made claims about the “skill” of the model, for example “Having established the predictive skill of DePreSys…”

The Smith et al paper made the following specific predictions:

There would be 0.3°C warming over the decade 2004-2014

At least half of the years after 2009 would be warmer than the record year of 1998.


From http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/long-range/decadal-fc

Observations and five-year mean forecast from November 2009


Observed (A) and forecast (B) maps of surface temperature differences (°C) relative to 1981-2010 for the 5-year period November 2009 to October 2014. Forecasts consist of 4 ensemble members starting from November 2009. The stippling shows where the observations lie outside the 5-95% confidence interval of the forecast ensemble.
WBraun

climber
Feb 5, 2015 - 09:43am PT
Last year The Chief said El Nino will arrive this year.

So far no El Nino but next few days maybe coming?

If so Bob D'A will have to bake more pizza for the hungry Americans trapped indoors ......
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Feb 5, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Deniers...please read. http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/


Werner, like everything else the chuffer post I don't make pizzas. :-)


WBraun

climber
Feb 5, 2015 - 09:47am PT
I know Bob, just yankin yer chain ...... :-)
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Feb 5, 2015 - 10:09am PT
And what am I being so hypocritical about there BobDA??

Name calling, hate and more than likely your life.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 5, 2015 - 10:25am PT
To Wade and Bob - Thanks for linking the piece from The Federalist. Interesting site.

Here's another gem:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/04/five-ways-liberals-ignore-science/

The perception that one political group is less science-savvy than another is predominately driven by the unwillingness of many conservatives to accept global-warming alarmism and the policies purportedly meant to mitigate it. But when it comes to climate change, volumes could be written about the ill-conceived, unscientific, over-the-top predictions made by activists and politicians.

We could start with our own Malthusian Science Czar, who once predicted that climate change would cause the deaths of a billion people by 2020 and that sea levels would rise by 13 feet. In 2009, James Hansen, one of nation’s most respected climate scientists, told President Obama that we have “only four years left to save the earth.” In 1988, he predicted parts of Manhattan would be underwater by 2008. If you don’t like high-speed rail, Jerry Brown will let you know that LAX Airport is going to be underwater. And so on and on and on. What we most often hear from science-loving environmentalists is nothing more than speculation.

If there weren’t some kind of left-wing ideological endgame propelling this tendentious guesswork and scaremongering about a relatively small changes in earth’s climate, it would be laughed out of any serious debate. Yet, in the contemporary world, there is no consequence for being a professional Chicken Little. In fact, the media puts you on Team Science.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2015 - 11:02am PT
Interesting opinion piece EdT. Way upstream, EdH wrote a very interesting post on accuracy in predictions, with an emphasis on how accurate can be our climate models WRT short vs. long term predictions.


You don't have to believe the science around climate science. But to think that it is a conspiracy that's propagated by thousands of scientists across multiple countries for multiple decades... Well that sounds pretty loony to me. I prefer to look at the conclusions of hundreds of rigorously-tested scientific studies, instead of cherry-picking random quotes made along the way.

BTW, ever look up how much money is being poured into debunking the findings of the climate science community?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 5, 2015 - 11:17am PT
You don't have to believe the science around climate science. But to think that it is a conspiracy that's propagated by thousands of scientists across multiple countries for multiple decades... Well that sounds pretty loony to me. I prefer to look at the conclusions of hundreds of rigorously-tested scientific studies, instead of cherry-picking random quotes made along the way.

BTW, ever look up how much money is being poured into debunking the findings of the climate science community?

Conspiracy? Did I say there's "a conspiracy that's propagated by thousands of scientists across multiple countries for multiple decades"?

Cherry picking? I posted two examples of UK Met Office's predictions, which involved changes through 2014, and you see it as cherry picking "random quotes".

I don't know how much is spent debunking the findings of the climate science community. It's probably less than one percent of what's spent reaching those findings. More or less.
raymond phule

climber
Feb 5, 2015 - 11:39am PT
I missed the confidence intervals in your first quote. I thought that you also know how important those are or is it just that confidence intervals are important when someone say something that you don't like?

It is good that someone start to parrot what is recently posted on WUWT again.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 5, 2015 - 11:40am PT
It is good that someone start to parrot what is recently posted on WUWT again.

Have we seen this movie before?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 5, 2015 - 11:42am PT
It is basically a strawman argument to harp about some outlandish quotes from "liberals" about climate change.
It is very easy to get the facts and the best predictions yourself direct from science sources such as the IPCC, NASA, EPA, etc. ALL major science federations are united in their basic consensus on climate change. All of them.
Once in a while you'll hear something inaccurate from climate scientists, which gets sorted out by the scientific process. It's only big news if you listen to faux news or wuwt or wsj or someone else trying to make money off hype and propaganda. They find some tiny mistake and then proclaim in 120 point BS font "a relatively small changes in earth’s climate, it would be laughed out of any serious debate." The problem is that the right wing deniers in the USA have mostly had their way with controlling politicians on climate change for 20 years now, corresponding to the rise of right wing media (remember when Bush junior had his henchmen rewrite the NASA and EPA science reports according to the whims of the fossil fuel and chemical industries)
So guys like Hansen have felt obliged to start minor lobbying against those deniers (Koch alone is spending $1 billion on lobbying in the next 1.5 years). And we also get partial ineffective policies like the bullet train to nowhere in California because many politicians have a hysterical fit when you even mention what is needed: a large revenue neutral carbon tax, RNCT, that starts off national and is forced through trade policy to become international.

More on Jim Hansen
Why focus on some possible minor misquote of his than the FACTS of his immense contributions to climate science and education? Why resort to strawmen instead of talking about the main points he has made?

Allegations by Hansen of censorship

In 2007, Hansen has stated that in 2005 NASA administrators had attempted to influence his public statements about the causes of climate change.[97][98] Hansen said that NASA public relations staff were ordered to review his public statements and interviews after a December 2005 lecture at the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. NASA responded that its policies are similar to those of any other federal agency in requiring employees to coordinate all statements with the public affairs office without exception.[99] Two years after Hansen and other agency employees described a pattern of distortion and suppression of climate science by political appointees, the agency’s inspector general found that the NASA Office of Public Affairs had mischaracterized the science of climate change intended for the public.[100]

In June 2006, Hansen appeared on 60 Minutes stating that the George W. Bush White House had edited climate-related press releases reported by federal agencies to make global warming seem less threatening.[101] He also stated that he was unable to speak freely without the backlash of other government officials, and that he had not experienced that level of restrictions on communicating with the public during his career.[101]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen#Allegations_by_Hansen_of_censorship

And Just another small correction:
Each year a little more of Manhattan is indeed under water. We will mostly only notice this in times of future storm surge. We are on track to follow the IPCC predictions on future sea level rise, which will not magically stop in the year 2100 as deniers like to think. Sea level rise is a very delayed reaction to the heat imbalance. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2015/01/a-new-sea-level-curve/#more-18022
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/sea-level-rise-quickens-more-than-thought-in-threat-to-worlds-coasts-20150114-12oe4o.html
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/dec/04/experts-ipcc-underestimated-sea-level-rise

" don't know how much is spent debunking the findings of the climate science community. It's probably less than one percent of what's spent reaching those findings. More or less."

It might be correct that there isn't a lot of science debunking science, because most scientists already have a process for correcting theories, just like they are now finding that the evidence last year on the Big Bang is not good after all.

But there is a MASSIVE amount of money spent lobbying by Deniers. They don't scientifically debunk much of anything. They just make up facts and distortions and put them on the news.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 5, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
Hey Chiloe.

Do you mind disclosing your publications list and funding sources?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 5, 2015 - 01:01pm PT
But there is a MASSIVE amount of money spent lobbying by Deniers.

The US government spends over 21 billion dollars each year on climate change expenditures. 2.6 billion dollars goes to the US Global Change Research Program. These figures are just federal government expenditures.

How much money is spent funding denier efforts? Not total budgets for groups that support skeptics! Funding specifically for denier efforts?
raymond phule

climber
Feb 5, 2015 - 01:05pm PT

Hey Chiloe.

Do you mind disclosing your publications list and funding sources?

It took me 5 seconds to find his homepage and publications list. Are you lazy?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 5, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
"How much money is spent funding denier efforts? Not total budgets for groups that skeptics! Funding specifically for denier efforts?"

YOu tell me how it is that for 15 years most republicans in congress would run away and hide so they wouldn't be on the record if you asked them something about climate change.
They didn't want to lose their funds from Koch, ALEC, Heritage, CATO, fossils, etc, which are mostly dark money now.

Also how many more times in the future will FEMA spend $50 billion per Sandy?

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
http://www.theeverlastinggopstoppers.com/2013/08/climate-change-denial-brothers-koch/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/fossil-fuel-lobbyists-bolstered-by-gop-wins-work-to-curb-environmental-rules/2014/12/07/3ef05bc0-79b9-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html
http://grist.org/news/funding-evil-lobbying-group-was-a-mistake-says-google/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/29/boehner-climate-change_n_5411154.html
http://thinkprogress.org/climate-denier-caucus-114th-congress/
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2014/11/meet-new-climate-denier-caucus
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/john-boehner-and-house-republicans-edit-climate-change-facts-out-obamas-speech
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/010968.php
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ofa/9-actual-quotes-about-climate-change-from-the-peop-dbl0#.ffbE0LWy9

etc.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 5, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
How much money is spent funding denier efforts?

Not total budgets for groups that support skeptics!

Funding specifically for denier efforts?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 5, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
So is it good that Sketch is back?.........lol.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 5, 2015 - 06:01pm PT
Who are these groups that support skeptics?

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