Sleepy driving: do you do the right thing?

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Steve's sister

Social climber
Las Vegas, NV
Sep 18, 2009 - 12:00pm PT
Pull over and take a nap!!!!!!!!!!
No excuses........the one you kill may not be yourself.

Think of your families and friends, as they are the ones who will suffer. A kind of suffering that never, ever goes away!!!!!

There are no heros who can make it through sleepiness forever, it will catch you and kill you, or worse, kill someone else.

mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Sep 18, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
One of the few right things that I do the right thing. I love to nap so it's not big deal to me. I love that feelng of sleeping rolling over me and letting go rather that fighting it. Had a great nap earlier this year on the lower parts of SPH after climbing with Miwok and a friend's kid. No use putting us both to risk, pulled over and we both dropped off and then were good to go. Amazing what a 20 minute power nap can do.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Sep 18, 2009 - 03:34pm PT
Whew, tough thread.

I'm a road warrior (I suspect most climbers are). Drove from Bozeman to Mexico once, three of us, 3000 miles in 60 hours straight through.

Been in a car when the driver fell asleep. We were lucky. Coming back from Gardner to Bozeman and picked the only spot on that drive to go off the road and be able to get the car back on track.

Also, sleepy following a looong day in Great Falls, back to Missoula, middle of nowhere, 2am, falling asleep at the wheel but for my damn plymouth duster's poor steering linkage yankin' the car back and forth, and, we were first on the scene of a driver who had fallen asleep, gone off the road, and hit a concrete culvert. There were three in the car. One of the grimmest things I've ever seen.

Co-workers killed by cell phone texters...

Had friends hit a black cow on the highway on a dark night in Nevada (way home from Tuolumne).

Just saw 7 pounds (the movie)...

You get all these reminders. I've really changed my driving habits. I mostly try to commute to climbing destinations in the day light. I leave extra time following a climb to get home.

I pull over, find a gas station and punch some red bull or monster or whatever. If that doesn't work, then sleep.

Scary business...

-Brian in SLC
Homer

Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Sep 18, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
I'm really sorry donini. It's a learning trip for all of us. Hard to tell where our limits are until we reach them. Pushing them may be part of what makes us who we are.

I'm with the short nap strategy. Sometimes 10 minutes on 10 minutes off. Don't worry about getting home late - everyone's already gone to sleep without you.
rhyang

climber
SJC
Sep 18, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
I've yet to meet anyone who broke their neck climbing (I suppose it's just a matter of time).

But after my accident I've read about multiple climbers who fell asleep at the wheel and rolled their cars.
Jerry Dodrill

climber
Sebastopol, CA
Sep 18, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
I'm a habitual roadside sleeper. Hotel parking lots are the best. Just pull to the back. Orchards work too. I slept in one a mile from my house this spring. That close and I just couldn't finish the drive.

Related thoughts written last winter:
http://jerrydodrill.blogspot.com/2008/12/easy-street.html

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Sep 18, 2009 - 06:59pm PT
"I knew my driving turn was over whenever the yellow double lines curled up into smoky wisps that floated off the road."

Holy crap. That was bad judgement. I would never ever let things get that far. Oh, except for that one time in high school driving home from Disneyland where I noticed that I was 20 minutes closer to home but didn't remember any of that 20 minutes.

Dave
noshoesnoshirt

climber
Arkansas, I suppose
Sep 18, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
I was driving back from Vegas one time. I'd just crosssed the New Mexico/Arizona line and just put a tape in the deck. I looked up and I was at mile marker thirty and the tape was playing side 2.

I don't have any memory of the missing thirty minutes. And instead of pulling over and catching a nap, my reaction was along the lines of "hell yeah, I can sleep and drive".


Bad news.
rich sims

Trad climber
co
Sep 18, 2009 - 07:20pm PT
Jerry Dodrill
I'm a habitual roadside sleeper. Hotel parking lots are the best. Just pull to the back. Orchards work too. I slept in one a mile from my house this spring. That close and I just couldn't finish the drive.
Boy I am now
I was rousted by a cop for sleeping on a side road along I70 after a long day of riding through the trees.
I said WTF you want me to drive till I crash and kill someone?


Late 70s coming back to the Valley after an all nighters at Mammoth hot springs I was driving on the wrong side of the road and my copilot asked why I was driving on the wrong side.
I casually told her I was bored but it scared me. I decided never again.

In my teens I was driving from San Diego to Florida nonstop, no drugs.
I woke up on the opposite side of a stand of trees form the highway. I drove through some trees and paralleled the road for a couple of hundred yards.
That was some where in Alabama
perswig

climber
Sep 18, 2009 - 07:45pm PT
Junior year of undergrad, after finals. I'm hammered from a week of all-nighters, Viverin, and stress. So I jump in the rig to head home at about 1600. Home is four hours. Five hours later I pull into the driveway of my girlfriend's PARENTS, a place I've been exactly once. It's in the same state, but only the first 60 miles in common with where I'm supposed to be. No idea how I got there, no idea why (still wondering that in a Freudian way). Another 2.5 hours to get home, after saying Hi and Sorry to her folks and getting the OK to sleep in their driveway.
Plenty of 17-hour trips home from vet school over the next 4 years, but learned my lesson and left the next day, after plenty of sleep and decompression.
Dale
14re3

Boulder climber
Twin Peaks ,CA
Oct 5, 2009 - 12:39am PT
Fell asleep on the way back from Brutus memorial in Marin 2 seconds: my oldest yelled truck & I said stupidly "I was asleep"
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 5, 2009 - 03:21am PT
hey there donini... say, very very sorry to hear of this sadness and the harm to others, in your life... hugs and prayers to you, for such pain...

say, not sure if you know chappy, but his brother, my brother--matt... i heard tell that he drove our dad's anglia off the road once... he lived to tell about it... not sure if he was coming back from yosemite or not... '

i remember the shock of what could have happened, and how i felt when i heard that--he had fallen asleep...

dear valgrl---i have not forgotten "tacos" ... i seem to remember that you had said something about her falling asleep...
sure hope you hear from her again one day... :(

*have not read all these post yet, but---i never had such a fear or experience, UNTIL i had suddenly been giving odd working hours that my brain could not handle... i knew it, but i had to do the hours or lose my job.... i felt this awful pull and was ready to pull over, too... trouble was, by the time it hit, there was NO chance to pull over, due to traffic... i was ready to find some other kind of plan, when the job ended, due to my hip-sciatic injury... i thank god for this, now, looking back, as of recent...

not stopping, would be the same as drunk driving, and--a crime again others... we must accept this, and do the proper thing and stop... if we can't find a way to stop or a proper place--perhaps we ought NOT to take such a route ever again....

life is too precious...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 5, 2009 - 03:38am PT
hey there seamus and DMT, say, i am very glad you are still with us... and say, just as glad too, that others were not hurt in these awful episodes...

let's keep this all to heart, folks...
life is a gift to take care of honorably, as any gift should be...

oh my...

i will thank the good lord right now that my ex somehow got us safe from texas to san jose, and back, all those many years...

or---there'd not be grandkids here today...
thank you dear lord, above...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 5, 2009 - 05:13am PT
hey there say, this driving issue is a very heavy and sad thing and it trails the tired brains of many a driver...

i just had to find some more info on this--perhaps it will help someone...

folks do NOT realize that they cannot talk themselves out of falling asleep, or, they cannot do enough tricks to work... sure, some tricks yes, may stall a tired brain for a bit, and make one feel like one has successfully tackled the trip home, but sooner or later, one will press the issue to far---and, when the "real issue" is ready to kick you can't stop it, and that is due to this fact:

the brain shuts down... (which is obvious, as you don't even know what is going on then)
also, "micro sleep" hits drivers at such time (which is a fast shut-down that can occur, before the full shut-down)...

falling asleep can happen in pieces, so they say:
Your Brain Goes to Sleep (and Wakes Up) in Pieces
sciam.com — If you're too tired to think straight, it might be because parts of your brain are already asleep at the wheel. Scientists are challenging the belief that a specific region of the brain makes the call to hit the sack. Instead, our brains power down in stages, they say. If a certain group of cells in our brain gets fatigued, it imply shuts off.
from here:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=brain-sacks-out-in-stag

es-08-11-11

here's more serious info:

Sleep debt
Carolyn Fay 2007 Oct 18 Definitions
The brain keeps track of the accumulated hours of wakefulness. One hour of sleep is needed to "pay off" every two hours of wakefulness. When the sleep debt load is high enough, the brain will essentially force one into sleep, which is what happens when drowsy drivers fall asleep at the wheel. Although sleep debt must be paid back eventually, there is unfortunately no way to "stockpile" sleep in the event of future shortages. Dement notes, too, that there have been no studies on long term sleep debt, and so it is unknown whether the brain keeps track of sleep debt past two weeks or so. And while a large sleep debt can be a very dangerous thing, a small sleep debt is good, because it allows us to fall asleep quickly and stay asleep.

Test subjects with no sleep debt often have difficulty both falling asleep quickly and staying asleep the whole night through.

i have one more bit, but will post it seperate, as this is so long already....

thanks for starting this post/thread...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 5, 2009 - 05:20am PT
hey there, say all... here is the last bit that i found.... sure hope it helps folks know when to stop

**helpful hints:
from here:
http://www.medem.com/?q=medlib/article/ZZZHD2NDIWE**

Here are some potentially life-saving tips for avoiding drowsy driving:

Be well rested before hitting the road. If you have several nights in a row of fewer than seven to eight hours of sleep, your reaction time slows. Restoring that reaction time to normal often takes more than one night of good sleep, because your sleep debt accumulates after each night you lose sleep. It may take several nights of being well rested to repay that sleep debt and ensure that you are ready for driving on a long road trip.

Avoid driving between midnight and 7 a.m. Unless you are accustomed to being awake then, this period of time is when we are naturally the most tired.

Don't drive alone. A companion who can keep you engaged in conversation might help you stay awake while driving.

Schedule frequent breaks on long road trips. If you feel sleepy while driving, pull off the road and take a nap for 15 to 20 minutes.

Don't drink alcohol. Just one beer when you are sleep deprived will affect you as much as two or three beers when you are well rested.

Don't count on caffeine. Although drinking a cola or a cup of coffee might help keep you awake for a short time, it won't overcome excessive sleepiness or relieve a sleep debt.
Opening a window or turning up the radio won't help you stay awake while driving. (micro sleep can still set in--your brain just shuts down no such stimulation registers then)

Be aware of these warning signs that you are too sleepy to drive safely: trouble keeping your eyes focused, continual yawning or being unable to recall driving the last few miles.

Remember, if you are short on sleep, stay out of the driver's seat!
The Wolf

Trad climber
Martinez, CA
Oct 5, 2009 - 10:26am PT
I had two friends killed when their car broke down on the freeway early one morning on their way to work. They were walking the side of the freeway home to get another car. They were only 1/4 mile from their house. A young guy coming off a graveyard shift fell asleep at the wheel and took them out. Lots of sadness all around.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 5, 2009 - 11:13am PT
I take a nap. In fact, often have a sleeping bag in the car in case I'm tired and it's cold.

But I had to learn this as I age. Last time I had a hard solo day, last month, I pulled over and took a 2 hour nap within 10 miles of my home. But get home I did!
14re3

Boulder climber
Twin Peaks ,CA
Oct 8, 2009 - 02:30am PT
Have pulled over several times to nap when working 7p to 7a/ One tine I guess i looked dead! CHP knocking on my window & I told him I worked nights.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 8, 2009 - 03:12am PT
hey there say, .... stopping to take a nap... :)

GOOD for you both.... :)

someones' family thanks you... we will never know who...
and that is a good thing, in this case... :)

god bless you guys...
susan peplow

climber
www.joshuatreevacationhomes.com
Oct 8, 2009 - 03:56am PT
A few months back I got to the point where couldn't make a round trip from AZ to CA without having to bivy on at least one leg of the trip. How pathetic is it that I couldn't handle a 5 hour drive anymore? Sometime I would pull off at rest stops or an off-ramp within 40 miles of my house.

I can't figure out if my inability to drive distances is a byproduct of old age or just that 8+ year of commuting has caught up with me.

To be honest I push it way more than I should. I'm more likely to die driving while asleep than climbing.

Then again, Russ and Werner are likely to just say, "when your numbers up...it's up"

~Susan

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